Talk:Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu

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Yuka's scolding

Is that translation about Shiki scolding Yuka for living too long really correct in the context of the conversation? The conversation leads me to believe what Shiki really said was something along the lines of "You have lived like this too long", not "you have lived too long". The entire build up to the conversation as well as the part after that seems to be Shiki chastizing Yuka about attacking anything and everything (when she really should attack only humans, being a youkai and all), not about her long life. This also parallels Shiki's scolding to Reimu (who gets scolded for attacking anything and everything when she really should attack only youkai)

Hell?

Touhou 1 talked about Jigoku, which means Hell. Sikieiki's page says she resides in hell. Could it be the same place? DarkHedge 12:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Saturn, Yama, Xanadu, Death

I'll try and be frank with this. Sikieiki's equivalent in western astrology as well as greco-roman mythology would be Saturn (cronos). Saturn passed judgement and was accociated with death, just as Skieiki. In alchemy, lead was dominated by saturn and was symbolized by green. This would coincide with Sikieiki's green hair (though this might be not by zun's intention, just chance). Xanadu means paradise all around and is accociated with Kublai Khan's (yes, that Kublai Khan) pleasure dome. Samuel Taylor Coleridge wrote a whole book about it. There is also a spot on Titan, Saturn's moon, named Xanadu. Titan is in general a very hellish celestial body. Yama was a god of death in Hinduism and Buddhism, sometimes depicted as green. This gets very complicated and I don't want to give you a Keine-boring history lesson, so I'll just leave it at that. But no matter how you look at it, Sikieiki is death. Also, this site needs moar mythology. At this rate we won't be able to keep up with ZUN! 71.246.250.130 03:33, 25 October 2008 (UTC)An exceptionally boring Nameless Fairy

Shiki from a statue?

One thing is...no one has scanned and translated that issue yet which gets me skeptical. The only time I saw Komachi with the three fairies was when she was drinking. So can you please provide where you found this information plus the page that says this? I'm not trying to be mean here but I'm curious. If you can't post proof then I will disagree with that funfact. MaronaPossessed 19:00, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Look at the pg. 89-90 of the 6th episode "不動の信仰" in the 1st volume of OSP.
"地蔵菩薩は地獄に落ちた者の救済を本願とする菩薩 というのは方便で お地蔵様自体はただの石像さ。 お地蔵様は菩薩という架空の存在を象徴しただけの目印である。 ただ おもしろいことに 信仰を集められれば当然力をもつようになるわけで…… ただの石像が神様のようになっていくこともある。 そう。 映姫様も元はそんなお地蔵様から出世したんだったよねぇ。"
- Komachi Onozuka, Id. [sic., except periods on all the ends of sentence.]
Indeed Komachi says it's expedient explanation that Jizou is Bosatsu — the fact is that Jizou is just a stone statue — and so is Eiki.
By the way, I will praise you for your attitude of erasing a looks-like-sceptic topic once & reverting it because of possibility that you might be inappropriate. Ordinary people, including me, can't do like that. --Masuo64 15:27, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Here's the thing...I don't understand japanese. Decipher it, tell me where you got the kanji, and then I'll think about it. MaronaPossessed 18:06, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
http://voile.gensokyo.org/res/33916.html for scans/kanji. !8RstuPId2Y 18:09, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Rough translation is "Jizou Bosatsu (ksitigarbha/kśitigarbha) is a Bosatsu (Bodhisattva), who promises the salvation of the people having fallen in hell... It's a houben (upāya). (In fact) O-Jizou sama is just a stone statue. O-Jizou sama is only a mark symbolizing Bosatsu, the fictional existence. It's interesting, however, he gains more power as he gathers faith (from congregation)... It means it's possible that a mere stone statue will be sometimes a god. Yes, Eiki sama also originally got up in career from such a O-Jizou sama, I remember." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Masuo64 (talkcontribs) 06:58, June 17, 2010
And where may I ask did you get this translation? Is it from someone we know? I don't trust rough translations...MaronaPossessed 01:40, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
Masuo didn't sign, but he is a native speaker. !8RstuPId2Y 02:05, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
Forgot my signature, sorry. The transcription above is from the original one I bought, and the translation above is done by me. So it may be wordy, unnatural & unappropriate for the last-version translation of good English translation, but the underlined sentences, which I've made now, would be so plain that all of us should reach the same agreement on what Komachi says.
And jigglyppuff8, thanks for your kindness, making up for my shortage. Even down for my time zone! (>ワ<)b --Masuo64 02:46, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
Okay I'm convinced now. I'll accept it. MaronaPossessed 23:18, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy of her name

After reading PMiSS more thoroughly, I came across the fact that "Yamaxanadu" is not actually part of her name, but her title. Furthermore, I noticed that her name was the only one not written in western order (Like Reimu Hakurei instead of Hakurei Reimu). To me, it would be a lot more accurate if her name were written as "Eiki Shiki, Yama of Xanadu." Does anyone have any opinions on this? I know I'm trying to change something that has been established for a while, but she used to be called "Sikieiki" by a lot of people when the game first came out, too. NForza 12:48, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

That's what I've thought long, too, except altering like "Yama of Xanadu". We could see Komachi so often calling her "Eiki sama" or "Shiki sama" in many fan-fics. The current spelling of name consists of "Family name+Personal name" "her position" as "四季映姫 + ヤマザナドゥ", while it is "四季 + 映姫 + ヤマザナドゥ". I've thought that problems concerning character's name comes from changing the order of Japanese name, or from alternating her personal part with her family part... Do remember once "Hieda no Akyuu" or "Fujiwara no Mokou". But, well, I can't say we must change all of them as the Japanese order since it's too many & routinely. --masuo64 Talk 14:35, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
The Name and Concept section covers this. ZUN's rendering was misleading as he merged the first+last name, plus added Yamadanadu to the end. I should note that ZUN's Japanese rendering of the name also omits the space. - Kiefmaster99 16:27, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I guess I missed that section earlier. But in that case, shouldn't we at least change the name of the page as well? Even something like "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" would be better in my opinion. NForza 01:54, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to second NForza's proposal for a change to the article name. - Kiefmaster99 20:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I support this as well.--としあき 20:37, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
So do I. This might also be on the front page (or a place where people can see the change anyway). ☢ Quwanti 21:16, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I did the revert because it looked dodgy. I didn't know this was discussed before. After reading this, I support as well. Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 21:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Go for it. Besides I see people calling her as "Eiki" more often than her full name, so Eiki Shiki should work. --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 01:37, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
When we call her analogically from the name like "President Barack Obama" & "General Douglas MacArthur", her name should be spellt primarily as "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" for the entry of this page, secondly as "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" on the beginning of description (it's "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" now), I think. --masuo64 Talk 13:50, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

The move!

So we have over 6 people supporting the move. When shall the move begin? Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 22:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, there is support for the change, but to what? I suppose is should be "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu", but are there other thoughts about it? ☢ Quwanti 21:00, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
I do like "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu". We can always use redirects for other alternative naming lol. Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 20:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I wish that I was here to see this conversation sooner. I do not support this move, as there are no other characters that use this naming convention. If "Yamaxanadu" is her title, then why is Reimu not "Reimu Hakurei, Shrine Maiden"? Code Slasher (talk) 07:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Formally referred in profiles as 四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥ. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 11:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm on with Masuo's idea that he mentioned above.
>her name should be spellt primarily as "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" for the entry of this page, secondly as "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" on the beginning of description
And oh yes, let me add that I think it's more appropriate to use "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" in every other articles on this wiki as well.--Doncot (talk) 11:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
@Code Slasher, it's a title as a form of address. Like how if John Smith is a doctor you'd call him either "Dr. John Smith" or "John Smith, PhD". You don't address shrine maidens any differently than normal. --Prime32 (talk) 11:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
@Prime32 While I believe this isn't so much of an important matter, but I don't think it's accurate to say "Yamaxanadu" as a "title" nor "form of address". It's more like an occupation like "President Barack Obama" or "Judge of Gensokyo Eiki Shiki". Quoting from Eiki's article at Nicopedia
>>なお彼女の名前は「四季映姫」であり、「ヤマザナドゥ」は役職名である。--Doncot (talk) 12:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
It's both. My point was, Eiki's job (like Doctor/President/King etc.) comes with a form of address and Reimu's does not. --Prime32 (talk) 13:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Are you saying that "Shrine Maiden" is not Reimu's job? Also, my point still stands that Eiki (or whatever she's called these days) is the only person on this entire wiki to have this form of naming. Finally, why should we say "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" for this page but "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" for every other page? Code Slasher (talk) 15:15, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Technically, she's also the only Touhou character to include her title in her actual in-game name. The 'title' part is more akin to, for example, 'Elizabeth II, Queen of England', than just her job title. I'll say though, as an article title it does look awkward. Momiji (talk) 20:21, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
We can always say "Shrine Maiden Reimu Hakurei" if ZUN uses it in her official profile, which he didn't. While he used "四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥ" in every official profile of Shiki's, no exception. And come to think of it now, I think using "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" in every page including the article title is more better, since I found out that Wikipedia uses that format. (e.g. Emperor Meiji)
Note: In Japanese we usually put the job name after the person's name (e.g. バラク・オバマ大統領、エルヴィン・ロンメル将軍、明治天皇), the opposite of English, which may give the clue of this confusion. --Doncot (talk) 20:54, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
In that case, I too think we should use "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" instead of "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu". After all, Japanese put the last name before the first name (Hakurei Reimu), yet this wiki puts the first name before the last name as per English protocols (Reimu Hakurei). Therefore, it would make sense that if Japanese put the profession after the name (Shiki Eiki, Yamaxanadu), the wiki should put the profession before the name, as per English protocols (Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki, akin to Dr. John Smith, President Barrack Obama, and Judge Dredd).
As an aside random note, although I don't think we should do it nor do I know if it's correct usage, it would sound pretty bad ass if all instances of "Yama" were changed to "Judge" so instead of saying "Oh, it's the Yama", characters would say "Oh, it's the Judge". Has that nice hardcore ring to it TiamatRoar (talk) 22:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I prefer Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu over Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki for the same reason as Momiji. It is true that in most job titles, yes, the title precedes the name (Queen Elizabeth II). However, we must consider the fact that Yamaxanadu is more of a formal title reading more like Yama of Paradise (like Queen of England, or Charles, Prince of Wales). Other examples can be found here and on various Magic: the Gathering cards. Also, I would prefer sticking with either Eiki or Eiki Shiki in most other usages, avoiding the problem altogether. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 04:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
>sticking with either Eiki or Eiki Shiki in most other usages
I didn't mean we should use her full title in every single situation, I just meant I'd perfer "Yamaxanadu Eiki Shiki" over ""Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu" and should match all the uses on the wiki. --Doncot (talk) 04:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, I have to admit I don't see "Title of Whatever" appended before the name very often, myself. I was thinking in terms of just "title" without the "of whatever". I guess having it aftewards does make more sense. TiamatRoar (talk) 12:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

If it is the view of the users on this wiki that "Yamaxanadu" is a formal title or job description and not a job title, then that is where we shall stand. Let's remember about this discussion when naming characters in the future. Code Slasher (talk) 01:32, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm halfway through the project of correcting the spelling of Eiki, which is posted on the Community portal. But after doing a wide research on talk pages across the wiki, and seeing that most of the pages that need correcting is fangames/fictions etc., I'm not sure if I should continue to do this. So I paused and made a list of the pages on my user page. Any suggestions? Advice? Ideas?
By the way, why "Shiki" appears in everyone's scenario in PoFV instead of "Eiki"? Is there any particular reason? If no I'll go and correct it. Heming (talk) 06:08, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
Great job doing the respelling. I think correcting it in the canon-related areas is inevitable, but doing it in the secondary areas isn't that much necessary. Fixing them on the notice is just fine for them, I believe. Also, not to mention you don't need to (shouldn't) edit the talk/userspace pages. As for the Shiki's in PoFV, as far as I can tell, there aren't any deep reasons to it.--Doncot (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
You should only ignore talk, fanfic and userspace pages in this case. ☢ Quwanti 18:44, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
I can understand talk pages, but what about userspace pages? Wouldn't it help solidify the move? I once edited an active user's userspace page with no adverse effects. Code Slasher (talk) 01:54, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
The problem is that it's their private space, so you risk upsetting the user if you do, unless it's pretty clear that the user desires to maintain current spellings. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 10:45, 21 August 2012 (EDT)

Z vs. X

A minor thought after I saw the recent edits: why do we say "Yamaxanadu" and not "Yamazanadu"? Code Slasher (talk) 10:24, 16 November 2012 (EST)

See Xanadu. Momiji (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2012 (EST)