• Welcome to Touhou Wiki!
  • Registering is temporarily disabled. Check in our Discord server to request an account and for assistance of any kind.

Talk:Chang'e: Difference between revisions

From Touhou Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
Line 9: Line 9:


: The furigana are necessary in Japanese since both characters in her name are [[:wikipedia:Hyōgai_kanji|not included in the Japanese school curriculum]], so even most native speakers might not know how to pronounce them otherwise; this is typical usage and doesn't imply any specific emphasis.  But it would be highly unusual to use the Japanese variant of a Chinese mythological name in English.  Pretty much the only use of "Jouga" in transliterated Latin characters ''at all'' is a tiny handful of Touhou-related discussions like this one; it has exactly zero traction in historical work.  -- [[User:Mazian|Mazian]] ([[User talk:Mazian|talk]]) 02:47, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
: The furigana are necessary in Japanese since both characters in her name are [[:wikipedia:Hyōgai_kanji|not included in the Japanese school curriculum]], so even most native speakers might not know how to pronounce them otherwise; this is typical usage and doesn't imply any specific emphasis.  But it would be highly unusual to use the Japanese variant of a Chinese mythological name in English.  Pretty much the only use of "Jouga" in transliterated Latin characters ''at all'' is a tiny handful of Touhou-related discussions like this one; it has exactly zero traction in historical work.  -- [[User:Mazian|Mazian]] ([[User talk:Mazian|talk]]) 02:47, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
::'''Wait a minute.''' Why would it matter if "Chang'e" is an established figure in Chinese mythology? If ZUN specifically writes the name as "Jouga" in the furigana, then that's how he intended it to be read as--This isn't a matter of being faithful to the Chinese myth, ''it's about being faithful to ZUN's interpretation of it''. If he intended it to be read as "Chang'e", then there's no reason he wouldn't have written the furigana as 「シャンゲ」. This includes the comics, which has the name written as "Jouga" in the SSiB image shown on this very page.
::Heck, even Japanese sites like Pixiv and Nico Nico specifically refer to the character 「嫦娥」 as 「じょうが」:
:::http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%AB%A6%E5%A8%A5
:::http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%AB%A6%E5%A8%A5
::The games and comics were derived from a Japanese script and intended to be read in Japanese--You don't mess with a translation by changing a name written in Japanese to that of a non-Japanese language just because it happens to be rooted in a non-Japanese lore. [[User:Grgspunk|Grgspunk]] ([[User talk:Grgspunk|talk]]) 20:37, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:38, 29 February 2016

Renaming Chang'e as Jouga across the board

As near as I can tell, in all instances where 嫦娥 appears in official text, from Silent Sinner in Blue to Cage in Lunatic Runagate to Junko's profile from Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom to the dialogue, there appears じょうが in furigana next to it. This usually indicates the author's intention of how a name is to be read...and it's not Chang'e.

Continuing to translate it as Chang'e is no different than if we decided to go with Qing'e instead of Seiga, Chun Hu for Junko, or Kurenai Misuzu for Meiling. He tells us how each is supposed to be, including Jouga. Though we ignore ZUN's preference for Kunrei-shiki in favor of Hepburn romanization, we don't just wholesale ignore his intention for a name, changing it to something else entirely, except in the case of Jouga/Chang'e currently.

While Chang'e is more well-known, at this point it's simply mere preference, ignorance or inconsistency why we've gone with Chang'e lately. I fell victim to it myself before this was pointed out. But even way back on the wiki we translated it as Jouga, the translation of SSiB notwithstanding. And given the evidence in its favor, I think we ought to continue to do so. UTW 22:19, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

It's not at all the same as your examples. Meiling and Junko are characters created by ZUN (even if Junko, and a few others, are loosely based on existing stories), but Chang'e is a well-established figure from Chinese mythology dating back millenia. She joins Taisui Xingjun in that category, where current translations also maintain the traditional Chinese name. Both of their English-translated names are well established, including in current English-language media, and derive directly from the Chinese, since they weren't filtered in by way of Japan first.
The furigana are necessary in Japanese since both characters in her name are not included in the Japanese school curriculum, so even most native speakers might not know how to pronounce them otherwise; this is typical usage and doesn't imply any specific emphasis. But it would be highly unusual to use the Japanese variant of a Chinese mythological name in English. Pretty much the only use of "Jouga" in transliterated Latin characters at all is a tiny handful of Touhou-related discussions like this one; it has exactly zero traction in historical work. -- Mazian (talk) 02:47, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Wait a minute. Why would it matter if "Chang'e" is an established figure in Chinese mythology? If ZUN specifically writes the name as "Jouga" in the furigana, then that's how he intended it to be read as--This isn't a matter of being faithful to the Chinese myth, it's about being faithful to ZUN's interpretation of it. If he intended it to be read as "Chang'e", then there's no reason he wouldn't have written the furigana as 「シャンゲ」. This includes the comics, which has the name written as "Jouga" in the SSiB image shown on this very page.
Heck, even Japanese sites like Pixiv and Nico Nico specifically refer to the character 「嫦娥」 as 「じょうが」:
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%AB%A6%E5%A8%A5
http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%AB%A6%E5%A8%A5
The games and comics were derived from a Japanese script and intended to be read in Japanese--You don't mess with a translation by changing a name written in Japanese to that of a non-Japanese language just because it happens to be rooted in a non-Japanese lore. Grgspunk (talk) 20:37, 29 February 2016 (UTC)