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Talk:Characters/Alternative spellings: Difference between revisions

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:::::Katamari Damacy is a good example of an unusual official spelling being used more than the Hepburn version, and it doesn't even follow ''any'' recognized system. Would you support primarily referring to that series as "Katamari Damshii"? (If so, then fair enough, since you'd be consistent.) --[[User:TheSinnerChrono|TheSinnerChrono]] 20:23, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
:::::Katamari Damacy is a good example of an unusual official spelling being used more than the Hepburn version, and it doesn't even follow ''any'' recognized system. Would you support primarily referring to that series as "Katamari Damshii"? (If so, then fair enough, since you'd be consistent.) --[[User:TheSinnerChrono|TheSinnerChrono]] 20:23, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
::::::You would have been right if ZUN had called his character something wildly different in his romanizations than what their JP names are, or if he was even remotely consistent with which romanization system he used. Yes it is ZUN's choise to call his characters what he wants, and he does, in Japanese, but that does not make him a god of romanization. Romanization is merely a tool for the English speaking to be able to read the sound of an JP word without having to learn a new alphabeth and for that an English ear is far better.
::::::I'm with the fairy here. Treating one as more official than another when the romanization system used by ZUN differ as much as a die roll from character to character(or even same character, but different game in Tewi's case) is loosing sight of what is important. What is important with this wiki is to introduce and give facts about Touhou project to the English speaking community, not be overly pedantic over what is more official or not when the creator clearly haven't thought too much about it.
::::::As for Katamari Damacy, that is the official English name for it, Touhou doesn't have any official English version, so the example doesn't apply.--[[Special:Contributions/129.241.129.161|129.241.129.161]] 20:33, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:33, 1 September 2009

Now comes the work of utilizing this comprehensive and useful data. I suggest the character's "Name" be the one most popularly used by the English speaking Touhou community when such a distinction is available and can be backed up with supporting evidence (in case of objections).

For example "Sanae Kotiya" and "Sanae Kochiya" both give approximately 8,000 hits on "English Only" search for google. So it could be

Name: Sanae Kotiya

Alternative Spelling: Sanae Kochiya

but for Tewi it would be: (20,000 hits for "Tewi Inaba" on English only google, 2,000 for "Tei" which is the most recent name used in an official Touhou game)

Name: Tei Inaba (TH09)

Popular Spelling: Tewi Inaba (TH08)


or Shizuha Aki (4,000) vs. Sizuka Aki (5)


Name: Shizuka Aki (TH10 In-Game)

Alternative Spelling: Sizuka Aki (TH10 Character Profiles)

etc.

Thoughts, ideas? Once consensus is reached regarding some formulation, template revisions and character page editing can commence. TheTrueBlue 19:09, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, this is Wikipedia's format for introducing characters: "Huziwara no Mokou (藤原 妹紅, Fujiwara no Mokō, alternate spelling Fujiwara no Mokou)".
With how many places some names have appeared, I don't think it's a good idea to list the sources in the characters' articles. Maybe it would work to simply have "alternative spelling" link to this article?
Currently, the "Name" part of Character Info provides the Japanese spelling and the spelling that's mainly used on the wiki. But since the article titles would give the main spelling anyway, I think that Name should be where we give standardized spellings (Revised Hepburn sans diacritics, same name order as original):
Name: 博麗 霊夢(はくれい れいむ)
Hakurei Reimu
(Article title: Reimu Hakurei)
藤原 妹紅(ふじわらのもこう)
Fujiwara no Mokou
(Article title: Huziwara no Mokou)
アリス・マーガトロイド
Arisu Maagatoroido
(Article title: Alice Margatroid)
For alternative spellings:
Alternative Spellings: Tewi Inaba, Tewee Inaba (unofficial)
Of course, this is all assuming that there's enough support for the official spellings in the first place. --TheSinnerChrono 19:41, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
As far as official spellings go, ZUN can call Tewi "Suzy Jefferson" for all it matters, that will be her "name" or "official name", I'm just wondering how to differentiate the sources for alternative spellings, if it comes from a game it's of higher precedence than a popular spelling. But how to insert "This is the spelling English Touhou Fans will recognize." succinctly...TheTrueBlue 19:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
From what I've seen, 90% of the "problem" is ZUN using Kunrei instead of Hepburn, mentioning which is pretty much pointless, as it doesn't change the name whatsoever. Stick to Hepburn which we're all familliar with, or include both romanizations as, say: "Hepburn: Sanae Kochiya, Kunrei: Sanae Kotiya" if you aim for completeness, but for god's sake don't treat one as more "official" as the other when they're one and the same thing. This comment was made by a nameless fairy passing by —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.79.210.61 (talkcontribs) 19:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I disagree, the most recent name ZUN uses is the "name". If it's Kunrei, then Hepburn should be listed as an alternative, if ZUN uses Hepburn, then Kunrei can be so listed. If ZUN didn't expressly use English in the games it could be our decision, but it's not, he saw English letters and he gave his tacit approval. If Tewi Inaba was English-ized by ZUN as "Jessica Alba". Then Tewi's profile should read:

Name: 因幡 てゐ(いなば てゐ)
Jessica Alba
Alternate spellings:
Tewi Inaba (Popularly known as; Hepburn Romanization)
Tei Inaba (Kunrei Romanization)


It's ZUN's authority alone as the artist to set the names of his characters. As a neutral informative wiki it's not our call to disrupt what the artist chose, even if unintentionally or without caring, until he specifies otherwise, we would be overreaching into the creative process where only ZUN and his publications or official statements belong. This is my position. TheTrueBlue 20:00, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't indicate "what most fans will recognize" in their Touhou character article, and I don't think we need to, either. But if you want something succint, then adding "(popular)" could work.
And I agree that we should primarily use the official spellings, but for wikis, what most people want can be more important than what's "correct". If just you and I want the official spellings, and everyone else wants the popular spellings, then oh well.
but for god's sake don't treat one as more "official" as the other when they're one and the same thing.
Katamari Damacy is a good example of an unusual official spelling being used more than the Hepburn version, and it doesn't even follow any recognized system. Would you support primarily referring to that series as "Katamari Damshii"? (If so, then fair enough, since you'd be consistent.) --TheSinnerChrono 20:23, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
You would have been right if ZUN had called his character something wildly different in his romanizations than what their JP names are, or if he was even remotely consistent with which romanization system he used. Yes it is ZUN's choise to call his characters what he wants, and he does, in Japanese, but that does not make him a god of romanization. Romanization is merely a tool for the English speaking to be able to read the sound of an JP word without having to learn a new alphabeth and for that an English ear is far better.
I'm with the fairy here. Treating one as more official than another when the romanization system used by ZUN differ as much as a die roll from character to character(or even same character, but different game in Tewi's case) is loosing sight of what is important. What is important with this wiki is to introduce and give facts about Touhou project to the English speaking community, not be overly pedantic over what is more official or not when the creator clearly haven't thought too much about it.
As for Katamari Damacy, that is the official English name for it, Touhou doesn't have any official English version, so the example doesn't apply.--129.241.129.161 20:33, September 1, 2009 (UTC)