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Talk:Double Dealing Character/Music: Difference between revisions

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::I'd like to keep the two names separate, too. [[User:Gilde|Gilde]] ([[User talk:Gilde|talk]]) 17:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
::I'd like to keep the two names separate, too. [[User:Gilde|Gilde]] ([[User talk:Gilde|talk]]) 17:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I still think we should have them united.  There is confusion keeping them separate. [[User:Code Slasher|Code Slasher]] ([[User talk:Code Slasher|talk]]) 07:14, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I still think we should have them united.  There is confusion keeping them separate. [[User:Code Slasher|Code Slasher]] ([[User talk:Code Slasher|talk]]) 07:14, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
::::Can you describe the confusion? That people would be severely affected by the extra "y" describing the location? When ZUN uses two terms to refer to the same thing, we use two terms like he does. End of story. [[User:Deadkid dk|_dk]] ([[User talk:Deadkid dk|talk]]) 15:54, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 15:54, 3 June 2013

ミストレイク

The comments suggest that they are talking about Misty Lake. Should the title be Misty Lake, then? Code Slasher (talk) 20:10, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm kind of split on what to do with it myself. I don't think there's any doubt that the music title is supposed to refer to what we now call the Misty Lake. I'm inclined to believe that "Mist Lake" is how ZUN would translate 霧の湖 (kiri no mizuumi). Making this problematic is that it was impossible to predict this ten years ago.
Therefore, I think we have two choices, maybe three. We could call this title "Misty Lake", or we could change our "Misty Lake" to "Mist Lake". The third is to just leave them separate. I'm inclined to at least favour translating ミスト to Misty, even though it's not one-to-one. If following ZUN's rendering is of greater importance, then I think our lake may have to change names. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 20:21, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
It might be interesting to note that in Pokemon, カスミ is Misty. Code Slasher (talk) 01:28, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
カスミ just means "mist" on its own. "Mist" isn't a name; "Misty" is. La bruja pícaro (talk) 01:48, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
I think we should keep 霧の湖 as Misty Lake (referring to the location) and ミストレイク as Mist Lake (referring to the song). After all, they're different in Japanese, so they should have some differentiation in the English too. Polaris (talk) 01:57, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
In Japanese, it's obvious to anyone who understands the English phrase ミストレイク that it's the same thing as 霧の湖. The difference between the two phrases (that one is English and the other is Japanese) is something that recurs throughout the Touhou series. Thus, people are accustomed to that sort of difference. However, there's no equivalent difference in English, and the same feeling can't really be expressed. I think using different names for it in English would be confusing and unnecessary. My personal opinion is that we should keep them consistent, regardless of whether it's "Misty Lake" or "Mist Lake".Flan27 (talk) 02:06, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
As for カスミ, Misty sounds much more like a girl's name than Mist ever could be. Localization concerns exist in Pokemon that aren't that relevant here.
As for what Polaris brought up, he may have a point. In Touhou, we do have translations that do exist that we force to be different, yet similar. Ghostly Band ~ Phantom Ensemble is one such example. For the music titles, they do have to be different if we don't want to omit the Japanese part. And repeating the English just sounds silly.
So perhaps the problem is not that Mist Lake is incorrect. Misty Lake might be too similar now. Still, perhaps we could leave them as that and call it a day. I don't know. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 03:07, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I think we should keep them separate. "Mist Lake" is a music track title, "Misty Lake" is a location name, per Polaris. It's more confusing and unnecessary to conflate two different things under the same name. "Mist" and "Misty" are similar enough that people will know they are referring to the same thing. _dk (talk) 03:14, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Location names have been used as music names as well before. Just look at "The Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum". If we are to decide to join the two together, in the interest of fandom sanity, I suggest that we change "ミストレイク" to mean "Misty Lake". Code Slasher (talk) 21:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
The problem is that ミストレイク is not the exact same thing as 霧の湖; both mean the same thing, but are still pronounced and 'spelled' differently. 夢殿大祀廟 on the other hand is used in both. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 01:50, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
Maybe ZUN is giving us a hint here? "Misutoreiku" (ミストレイク) sounds a lot like "Mist Lake", does it not (although it would send negative shock waves through the fandom)? Code Slasher (talk) 07:00, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't just sound like Mist Lake, it means Mist Lake. ミスト=Mist, レイク=Lake. That's the big deal.Flan27 (talk) 10:56, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, no one else has responded for a while, so should we try to get a general consensus? I think that changing Mist Lake to Misty Lake in order to be consistent with the place name would be best. The names are different in Japanese, but in a way which can't be expressed in English. I think that trying to express the difference would just end up seeming more like a typo or an inconsistency. My vote goes for Misty Lake, but please feel free to argue or agree with me.Flan27 (talk) 10:23, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

My vote is against combining two separate things into one name. There is no confusion keeping them separate. _dk (talk) 11:54, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
Against. The slight difference b/w 霧の湖 and ミストレイク can be conveyed in English. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 14:03, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to keep the two names separate, too. Gilde (talk) 17:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
I still think we should have them united. There is confusion keeping them separate. Code Slasher (talk) 07:14, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
Can you describe the confusion? That people would be severely affected by the extra "y" describing the location? When ZUN uses two terms to refer to the same thing, we use two terms like he does. End of story. _dk (talk) 15:54, 3 June 2013 (UTC)