Talk:Drunkening and Sobering of Lotus-Eaters

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Sobriety[edit]

About the translated name, ロータスイーター達の酔醒 seems to imply something like "Lotus Eaters' 酔醒". 酔醒 apparently means to oscillate between drunk and sober, which I guess could be translated as just "intoxication" for simplicity. But it's not an adjective in this case, so instead of The "Intoxicated Lotus Eaters" it should be "The Lotus Eaters' Intoxication". --GenoCraft 13:25, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Another dictionary suggests that it means both drunkness and sobriety in older texts.(Link) So sobriety by itself is probably still incorrect. How do we deal with this?

Maybe we could go with something like "Drunken Sobriety" for the moment? It's a pretty long title, but until someone comes up with a better idea, at least it expresses both meanings. Or maybe something like "Oscillating Drunkenness", "Alternating", "Fluctuating", something like that? I thought about incorporating the word "Trance" somehow, but couldn't think of anything. --GenoCraft 16:05, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  • It's been interesting so far to try and figure this out. Maybe "Non-Indulgence" could work if we're sticking with that angle of 酔醒? Just throwing that idea out there, so what other ideas we'll have for this will be good discussion topics. HijirinMyouren, 26 September 2019
    • Looking at the japanese definitions, I'd say it roughly means hungover --Yamaxandu (talk) 19:14, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
To me, the current title is fine as it as (although "Lotus Eaters" should be "Lotus-Eaters", with the hyphen intact). 酔醒 just means to get drunk and stop being drunk when you wake up. Basically get drunk then get sober. A hangover is a negative experience you get after you drink, and is always associated with headaches and other nasty symptoms. Plus "hangover" in Japanese is already 二日酔い and that word was used in DBoA's "二日酔いの同床異夢" (Hangover of Bedfellows Dreaming Differently). 酔醒 is a different word that has no direct translation in English, it's just "to get drunk then not be drunk". "Sobriety of the Drunken Lotus-Eaters" is fine IMO, it gets the point across accordingly.
Ennin (talk) 20:26, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
I’d hardly say the title is clear— it implies a contradiction, rather than a progression of events. How about “a sobering” instead maybe? —Yamaxandu (talk) 22:08, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
I'd be fine with "Sobering of the Lotus-Eaters"/"The Lotus-Eaters' Sobering" or what we already have right now. I don't know about others though.
Ennin (talk) 22:21 September 2019 (UTC)
Is something along the lines of "Intoxication-Sobering of Lotus Eaters" not much more appropriate? "Sobriety of Drunken" doesn't really emphasize the back-and-forth and seems to imply something else. Drake Irving (talk) 22:15, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
That feels kinda... artificial? Perhaps just replace "Sobriety" with "Sobering"? Sobriety sounds more like the state of already being sober, while Sobering sounds more like the act of becoming sober. That way it emphasizes the "transition" aspect more. The drunken lotus-eaters are becoming sober. "Sobering of Drunken Lotus-Eaters". Also yeah, I agree there should be a hyphen there. --GenoCraft 00:42, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm not too sure about those exact words either, but I used the hyphen to indicate the connectedness without using "x-and-y". I feel like "Sobering of Drunken" still kind of messes with the structure when it doesn't necessarily need to; turning the title into a description splits the terms apart. Plus, like I was considering before that seems to suggest the focus of the work is about their sobering specifically when that doesn't seem to be the case. Drake Irving (talk) 07:55, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
Another suggestion, "Drinking Cycle of the Lotus-Eaters" Drake Irving (talk) 08:12, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Flower[edit]

Worth noting that 酔蝶花 is also known as 風蝶草, which are flowers in the Cleome genus, also named Spider flower (not to be confused with spider lilies): http://yasashi.info/ku_00005.htm --Splashman (blub) (talk) 00:08, 27 September 2019 (UTC)