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Talk:Immaterial and Missing Power/Music

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I know the IaMP music page's just temporary for now, but isn't Sukia's theme actually called 「御伽の国の鬼が島 〜 Missing Power」?

Yuumi Ikihara 13:37, 15 February 2006 (PST)

夜が降りてくる and 御伽の国の鬼が島 ~ Missing Power?

On the List by Song: Immaterial and Missing Power page, they have different translations. I'm wondering which ones are more correct. jpp8 16:24, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

鬼が島, again

Suika's theme, yadda yadda.

I've seen 鬼が島 actually translated exactly once, in Okami. Everywhere else you see it left transliterated as "Onigashima" because it's a proper location name pretty much set in folklore, kinda like how we don't go with "Fantasy Land" for Gensokyo. So I believe it should be changed. Indeed.

If a translated name is kept for some reason (why, though), it should at least be changed to "Oni Island" over "Oni's Island". Possessive doesn't work that well in these sort of location names, especially since "oni" is plural in this case. Well, unless you wanna say "Youkai's Mountain".

VasteelXolotl (talk) 22:04, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

NamelessLegacy back in 2010 thought that "Oni's Island" worked better because they thought that "Onigashima" was not "an established canon (sic) term", and I know that the users on here generally prefer translations over transliterations, but I think "Onigashima" would be fine. *shrug* Code Slasher (talk) 07:09, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
I agree on Onigashima. I think it's best that way. Modern translations of Momotaro and in recent years the majority of localized Japanese games that feature the island opt to use "Onigashima". Additionally, it is a proper name and shouldn't be translated but transliterated instead. If it's good enough for One Piece then I see no reason to not use it.
Ennin (talk) 01:04, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

御伽の国

I'm pretty sure the full title, Otogi no Kuni no Onigashima, is an Alice in Wonderland (Fushigi no Kuni no Arisu) reference. 御伽の国 is meant to invoke 不思議の国. 御伽 means fairytale (and fable, yes) but fairytaleland or fableland isn't a word in English. Fairyland is. I'm not sure why the last person who edited it said it wasn't but it is. You get the definitions "a beautiful or seemingly enchanted place" and "an imagined ideal place; a utopia". This tracks with all the other synonyms of "paradise" in the series, it's meant to be a stand-in for "Gensokyo". The phrase 御伽の国 even has dictionary entries in Japanese. Kotobank defines it as "a land that appears in fairy tales" or "an imaginary land of dreams and ideals". In other words, a paradise. It's a 1 to 1 translation with "Fairyland". It should be "Onigashima in Fairyland". ーEnnin (talk) 10:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

No. For a couple of reasons.
御伽の国 and 不思議の国 are entirely separate terms, there is no reason for one to invoke the other. The "Alice in Wonderland" theming is present in Mystic Square, not in IaMP - this game has nothing to do with Alice in Wonderland theming. Above all, I posit that the second の is not used as a locative marker at all the way the old translation and your proposal take it (X in wonder/fairyland) but is used as an attributive marker (being a wonder/fairyland is an aspect or attribute of X; X is a wonder/fairyland). In English this gives us a prepositional phrase; The wonder/fairyland of Onigashima, or inverted, Onigashima the wonder/fairyland. It is a separate location that exists somewhere in Gensokyo and has been alluded to and is referred to as 御伽の国 because of its basis in the folk tale of Momotarou. 御伽の国 is NOT Gensokyo, 鬼が島 is the 御伽の国 and is a part of or can be reached from Gensokyo. Would you say that a locale like Old Hell is also wholly equivalent to Gensokyo? No, but it is a place within Gensokyo or can be reached from Gensokyo - that's the pattern here.
I also never claimed that fableland is a word nor tried to use it. The term I am using is "fabled (adjective) land (noun)" instead of fairyland to distinguish Onigashima, a land we can presume is (and I believe even is stated to be, but a citation eludes me) inhabited by oni, from the term Fairy (妖精 et al.) as it currently exists in Touhou terminology. Suika, the Oni, and Onigashima have nothing at all to do with fairies and this is simply to avoid an unnecessary terminology overlap. Fabled land is a valid collocation and its meaning is not much different from fairyland in any case.
NaokiP (talk) 18:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)