Difference between revisions of "Talk:Joon Yorigami"

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(Tough-Luckiest?)
(Jo'on or Joon)
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:::Oh ya that's true re:the Motoori thing, agreed [[User:Gilde|Gilde]] ([[User talk:Gilde|talk]]) 01:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 
:::Oh ya that's true re:the Motoori thing, agreed [[User:Gilde|Gilde]] ([[User talk:Gilde|talk]]) 01:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 
::::Legitimately forgot about Motoori's situation, thanks for reminding me. I guess getting rid of the Y is fair since it's done for everything else. But I really think people need to obsess over Hepburn overwriting a little less and worry more about what ZUN actually calls his characters. "He changes things sometimes" is usually brought up as an argument, and it's such a weak argument: just pick the first use (the most important use) and mention the others in trivia, problem solved forever. The only exceptions I can really think of are anything to do with Flandre or Cirno (mostly just Flandre, Cirno is more or less set in stone), because ZUN really fucked up with tEoSD. Oh well. [[User:Despatche|Despatche]] ([[User talk:Despatche|talk]]) 04:00, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 
::::Legitimately forgot about Motoori's situation, thanks for reminding me. I guess getting rid of the Y is fair since it's done for everything else. But I really think people need to obsess over Hepburn overwriting a little less and worry more about what ZUN actually calls his characters. "He changes things sometimes" is usually brought up as an argument, and it's such a weak argument: just pick the first use (the most important use) and mention the others in trivia, problem solved forever. The only exceptions I can really think of are anything to do with Flandre or Cirno (mostly just Flandre, Cirno is more or less set in stone), because ZUN really fucked up with tEoSD. Oh well. [[User:Despatche|Despatche]] ([[User talk:Despatche|talk]]) 04:00, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 +
:::::I always pronounced Motoori "Moto-ree" (ie. Motōri (long o sound)) until you guys brought it up. This is why we should spell her name Jo'on, so people won't come up with "June" or "John" as pronounciations and we don't get stuck with a bad name like Flandre and Maribel in the long run. [[User:Lebon14|Lebon14]] ([[User talk:Lebon14|talk]]) 21:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
  
 
== Tough-Luckiest? ==
 
== Tough-Luckiest? ==

Revision as of 21:18, 30 December 2017

Jo'on or Joon[edit]

Anybody else think we should romanize her name as Jo'on instead of Joon? A lot of people are already doing it and it's not super unheard of. The same thing, for example, is done with ZUN's real name (Jun'ya). It makes the repeated vowel sound a lot clearer to people unfamiliar with the specifics of Japanese pronunciations. And looks nicer too, in my personal opinion. --MagicNineball (talk) 06:45, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

We discussed it a bit on the Thpatch Discord; we both decided to use Joon. What do you think? Mamizou (talk) 07:02, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
If we're opinion-polling, then I wanna say Jo'on for pronunciation clarity? but I'll go with whatever everyone else agrees on either way Gilde (talk) 07:05, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
My own issue with "Jo'on" is that I reflexively give it a glottal stop. Mamizou (talk) 08:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
ZUNspelling in omake.txt:  ○最凶最悪の双子の妹, 依神 女苑, Yorigami Jyoon --Splashman (blub) (talk) 08:14, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
If the official English translation is actually something that happens, then they'll probably throw at us an official way to write it that we can go with. (Although that's still far enough in the future that I guess we could decide on a placeholder? In which case I'd vote for Jo'on.) Polaris (talk) 09:43, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd be voting for Jo'on as well, I am not confident enough in gaijins abilities and we might hear such wonderful pronunciation as Jun lol --Yamaxandu (talk) 12:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd go for Jo'on. --CapTengu (talk) 13:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Voting for Jo'on, too. Without the apostrophe, I'd end up reading it more like じょーん. --Popfan (talk) 15:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Voting for Jo'on as well. The first time I saw "Joon", I instinctively pronounce it "June". And the ' in "Jo'on" stops that instinct. Also romanizing her name "Jyoon" is just the Japanese romanized under the Kunrei-Shiki romanization rules in which there is an exception for "jyo" to be written "jo". So, that's a non-issue. Lebon14 (talk) 15:56, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Obviously, the correct answer is Jyoon. It's not a non-issue, and worrying about a group of people who have zero interest in anything to do with Touhou is a waste of time. When you have people who claim to know better outright stating that they don't here, you have a huge problem and you need to avoid things like apostrophes like the plague. Apostrophes are indeed a plague, that make the already terrible Hepburn even more terrible. Despatche (talk) 17:09, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I concur with no apostrophes, but would probably prefer Joon. To me at least, an apostrophe leads me to do a glottal stop. We should probably avoid using apostophes as much as possible. Switching Jyo to Jo is just continuing the "tradition" of prefering Hepburn, whether correctly or not, and besides that we shouldn't be altering the romanization any further with apostrophes. --DTM (talk) 17:20, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I know I started this topic in the first place, but I've also changed my mind to 'Joon' after realizing that we don't add an apostrophe in 'Motoori' either. It'd be inconsistent. --MagicNineball (talk) 22:28, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Oh ya that's true re:the Motoori thing, agreed Gilde (talk) 01:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Legitimately forgot about Motoori's situation, thanks for reminding me. I guess getting rid of the Y is fair since it's done for everything else. But I really think people need to obsess over Hepburn overwriting a little less and worry more about what ZUN actually calls his characters. "He changes things sometimes" is usually brought up as an argument, and it's such a weak argument: just pick the first use (the most important use) and mention the others in trivia, problem solved forever. The only exceptions I can really think of are anything to do with Flandre or Cirno (mostly just Flandre, Cirno is more or less set in stone), because ZUN really fucked up with tEoSD. Oh well. Despatche (talk) 04:00, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
I always pronounced Motoori "Moto-ree" (ie. Motōri (long o sound)) until you guys brought it up. This is why we should spell her name Jo'on, so people won't come up with "June" or "John" as pronounciations and we don't get stuck with a bad name like Flandre and Maribel in the long run. Lebon14 (talk) 21:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Tough-Luckiest?[edit]

The character titles of the two new characters are currently translated as 'The Worst, Tough-Luckiest (Younger/Older) Twin Sister', but I don't think 'tough-luckiest' is an appropriate term to use here. This is because 'tough luck' is a set phrase that you say to someone when something bad happens to them and you don't really care. It isn't an adjective.

Looking at the original phrase 最凶最悪), it seems to be used to indicate a sense of underlying malice or danger. For example (going off a quick Google search here), you have 最凶最悪ゴールデンフリーザ (Dragon Ball reference) or 地上最凶最悪超人. 最凶 (saikyou) is of course also pronounced the same as 最強 (saikyou), which could be a reference to AoCF's introductory text talking about the 'strongest pair.'

I'd personally go with '(Younger/older) of the Most Diabolical Twins', changing the order of the words since 最凶最悪 is modifying 双子. Either way, I think it deserves a bit more discussion before we settle on a translation. There might even be a way of incorporating the 'misfortune' element of in there, too...Biggest Dreamer (talk) 00:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Ya, the 最強/最凶 pun is def. what they were going for; there's things like the character-select screen saying "最凶の二人を作れ!" instead of "最強の二人" like most people would expect. I imagine it's supposed to look kind of ridiculous? (Like, "you're asking me to make the worst pair possible? whaa?", that sorta thing.) I didn't come up with "Tough-Luckiest"-- I saw it on the thpatch wiki and borrowed it from there-- but I feel like the fact that (as you said) it's an obviously dumb-looking Frankenstein adjective made it appropriate for a "ridiculous pun" situation like that. Like, it fits with how Joon and Shion claim to be the toughest around, but are actually a couple of losers who bring "tough luck" to everyone including themselves? And it's got their "misfortune" aspect right there already, with the word "luck" being in it. Anyone else wanna weigh in though? Gilde (talk) 01:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
How about "disastrous"? --Yamaxandu (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)