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Talk:Joon Yorigami

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Jo'on or Joon

Anybody else think we should romanize her name as Jo'on instead of Joon? A lot of people are already doing it and it's not super unheard of. The same thing, for example, is done with ZUN's real name (Jun'ya). It makes the repeated vowel sound a lot clearer to people unfamiliar with the specifics of Japanese pronunciations. And looks nicer too, in my personal opinion. --MagicNineball (talk) 06:45, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

We discussed it a bit on the Thpatch Discord; we both decided to use Joon. What do you think? Mamizou (talk) 07:02, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
If we're opinion-polling, then I wanna say Jo'on for pronunciation clarity? but I'll go with whatever everyone else agrees on either way Gilde (talk) 07:05, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
My own issue with "Jo'on" is that I reflexively give it a glottal stop. Mamizou (talk) 08:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
That's the intention of the apostrophe so you don't pronounce the 2 'o' together. Lebon14 (talk) 08:55, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
ZUNspelling in omake.txt:  ○最凶最悪の双子の妹, 依神 女苑, Yorigami Jyoon --Splashman (blub) (talk) 08:14, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
If the official English translation is actually something that happens, then they'll probably throw at us an official way to write it that we can go with. (Although that's still far enough in the future that I guess we could decide on a placeholder? In which case I'd vote for Jo'on.) Polaris (talk) 09:43, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd be voting for Jo'on as well, I am not confident enough in gaijins abilities and we might hear such wonderful pronunciation as Jun lol --Yamaxandu (talk) 12:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd go for Jo'on. --CapTengu (talk) 13:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Voting for Jo'on, too. Without the apostrophe, I'd end up reading it more like じょーん. --Popfan (talk) 15:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Voting for Jo'on as well. The first time I saw "Joon", I instinctively pronounce it "June". And the ' in "Jo'on" stops that instinct. Also romanizing her name "Jyoon" is just the Japanese romanized under the Kunrei-Shiki romanization rules in which there is an exception for "jyo" to be written "jo". So, that's a non-issue. Lebon14 (talk) 15:56, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Obviously, the correct answer is Jyoon. It's not a non-issue, and worrying about a group of people who have zero interest in anything to do with Touhou is a waste of time. When you have people who claim to know better outright stating that they don't here, you have a huge problem and you need to avoid things like apostrophes like the plague. Apostrophes are indeed a plague, that make the already terrible Hepburn even more terrible. Despatche (talk) 17:09, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I concur with no apostrophes, but would probably prefer Joon. To me at least, an apostrophe leads me to do a glottal stop. We should probably avoid using apostophes as much as possible. Switching Jyo to Jo is just continuing the "tradition" of prefering Hepburn, whether correctly or not, and besides that we shouldn't be altering the romanization any further with apostrophes. --DTM (talk) 17:20, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I know I started this topic in the first place, but I've also changed my mind to 'Joon' after realizing that we don't add an apostrophe in 'Motoori' either. It'd be inconsistent. --MagicNineball (talk) 22:28, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Oh ya that's true re:the Motoori thing, agreed Gilde (talk) 01:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Legitimately forgot about Motoori's situation, thanks for reminding me. I guess getting rid of the Y is fair since it's done for everything else. But I really think people need to obsess over Hepburn overwriting a little less and worry more about what ZUN actually calls his characters. "He changes things sometimes" is usually brought up as an argument, and it's such a weak argument: just pick the first use (the most important use) and mention the others in trivia, problem solved forever. The only exceptions I can really think of are anything to do with Flandre or Cirno (mostly just Flandre, Cirno is more or less set in stone), because ZUN really fucked up with tEoSD. Oh well. Despatche (talk) 04:00, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
I always pronounced Motoori "Moto-ree" (ie. Motōri (long o sound)) until you guys brought it up. This is why we should spell her name Jo'on, so people won't come up with "June" or "John" as pronounciations and we don't get stuck with a bad name like Flandre and Maribel in the long run. Lebon14 (talk) 21:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Actually, the name should be Jion. I copied her first name in hiragana and pasted on Google Translate, and I saw the "i" for "じ". Nintenchris5963 (talk) 05:20, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Are... are you trolling? Polaris (talk) 08:23, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
Okay, assuming you're not trolling... That's wrong. The first name in hiragana is written out as "じょおん", and while the first character "じ" is "ji", that's not all there is to it. The second character is a "ょ", which you may or may not recognize as the hiragana for "yo", but smaller (compare "よ" and "ょ"). In Japanese, the two characters "じょ" together make the "jo" sound. Together with the rest of her name, we get Joon (or Jo'on, which is what we're discussing here).
If you are just starting out on learning Japanese, I suggest that you hold off on making bold corrections until you have a better grasp of the language. In the meantime, if you have some questions about how something is translated (or romanized, in this case), you can always ask about it on the talk page. Polaris (talk) 08:55, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

For what it's worth, they're already using Jo'on as the tag on danbooru. We have to decide this soon, or it'll be out of our hands when people continue to use what they're familiar with. Assuming it's not too late already. Clarste (talk) 00:06, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

I think we should standardize on Jo'on as it appears that that spelling is used more frequently. -CapTengu (talk) 02:01, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Actually, I think Joon is the spelling that is used more frequently from what I've seen. And it seems that a majority of people that have commented prefer no apostrophes, so I think we should settle with Joon. That is what is currently on THPatch as well. --DTM (talk) 02:22, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
It is also 100% in our best interest to *not* be Wikipedia with their worship of "the common name", which tends to be ignorant mistakes more often than not. This is yet another reason why just using the source is always better: you can't argue against the source itself, but you can always argue against any weird mistakes (anything involving an apostrophe or Hepburn overwriting) or totally fabricated names (every single unofficial translation) people create. Despatche (talk) 21:43, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
I don't quite think that's the case either, as ZUN doesn't consistently use any kind of romanization system; not across works, not within the same game, and not even within one name. He just does whatever, which suggests he doesn't actually think about it that much. They're arguably there for flavour more than they are actual points of information, so taking it as a source is questionable. The actual name, in Japanese, is the true source. There are cases where the romanization informs the origin of the name in Japanese and thus are useful, but this is only relevant with ambiguous names in katakana (hence why we still ended up using "Nazrin" despite it definitely not being pronounced the same). Meanwhile as far as people's preferred spelling goes, it's really hard to say some choices are truly "wrong" when split between many equally correct options. Using different romanization systems is the obvious one, but I also can't really correct someone who wants to use Frandre. This puts the wiki in an odd prescriptive-descriptive predicament where generally people tend to use translations and spellings from here as though they're authoritative, but in cases where it's arbitrary with no clear "correct" option or consistency to follow, being descriptive and going with what's common (especially if it's long-standing) is just the least problematic choice because everyone is using it anyways. Drake Irving (talk) 06:57, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Something I'm surprised nobody's mentioned yet is that typically in romanization the purpose of this apostrophe is to disambiguate pronunciation and writing. However, Joon is already unambiguously split jo·o·n; there is no other possible interpretation. The usefulness of Jo'on has been for people unfamiliar with how to pronounce it, and obviously I see the benefit of using it, but it isn't actually relevant in the normal context of using the apostrophe in transliteration. Drake Irving (talk) 06:57, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

The spelling "Joon" is correct, but I believe the pronunciation is "John". (That's actually funny.) Nintenchris5963 (talk) 11:10, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Not exactly, you have to pronounce the second "o", "John" would be just ジョン (or じょん, "jo·n"). That's the reason the "Jo'on" spelling was even used, to disambiguate the pronunciation for people unfamiliar with the japanese pronunciation. AlphaPizza (talk) 14:47, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Even that much isn't really correct, as the お sound is lower than the sound in "John", which sounds more like "jawn". ジョン would be pronounced more like the name Joan with a nasally n. Drake Irving (talk) 23:23, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
I was actually laughing about the John part. That really cracked me up. Amyways, maybe "Jone" would be better instead of John. (Dammit, not again!) Nintenchris5963 (talk) 03:29, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

On second thought, it's not Joon and Jo'on after all. It's actually "Jyoon". I saw it in this video of someone playing Touhou 15.5 when the English words are actually subbed while the game is in Japanese. Nintenchris5963 (talk) 02:49, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Different romanization systems. Mami (talk) 03:13, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Tough-Luckiest?

The character titles of the two new characters are currently translated as 'The Worst, Tough-Luckiest (Younger/Older) Twin Sister', but I don't think 'tough-luckiest' is an appropriate term to use here. This is because 'tough luck' is a set phrase that you say to someone when something bad happens to them and you don't really care. It isn't an adjective.

Looking at the original phrase 最凶最悪), it seems to be used to indicate a sense of underlying malice or danger. For example (going off a quick Google search here), you have 最凶最悪ゴールデンフリーザ (Dragon Ball reference) or 地上最凶最悪超人. 最凶 (saikyou) is of course also pronounced the same as 最強 (saikyou), which could be a reference to AoCF's introductory text talking about the 'strongest pair.'

I'd personally go with '(Younger/older) of the Most Diabolical Twins', changing the order of the words since 最凶最悪 is modifying 双子. Either way, I think it deserves a bit more discussion before we settle on a translation. There might even be a way of incorporating the 'misfortune' element of in there, too...Biggest Dreamer (talk) 00:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Ya, the 最強/最凶 pun is def. what they were going for; there's things like the character-select screen saying "最凶の二人を作れ!" instead of "最強の二人" like most people would expect. I imagine it's supposed to look kind of ridiculous? (Like, "you're asking me to make the worst pair possible? whaa?", that sorta thing.) I didn't come up with "Tough-Luckiest"-- I saw it on the thpatch wiki and borrowed it from there-- but I feel like the fact that (as you said) it's an obviously dumb-looking Frankenstein adjective made it appropriate for a "ridiculous pun" situation like that. Like, it fits with how Joon and Shion claim to be the toughest around, but are actually a couple of losers who bring "tough luck" to everyone including themselves? And it's got their "misfortune" aspect right there already, with the word "luck" being in it. Anyone else wanna weigh in though? Gilde (talk) 01:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
How about "disastrous"? --Yamaxandu (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Tough-luckiest was my idea of a cleverly dumb pun. I still think it fits, but I agree it's not the best choice. "Disastrous" is a good idea, so we decided to go with "Create the Most Disastrous Duo!" for the character select. As for 最凶最悪, we could use "The Worst, Most Disastrous", or for complete exaggeration: "The Most Despicable and Disastrous".--Splashman (blub) (talk) 14:49, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Oh! Thanks very much for the input. "Most Despicable and Disastrous" or smth like that sounds good then, yeah Gilde (talk) 04:50, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
So can we agree to change it to "Most Despicable and Disastrous" yet? Incidentally, the phrase is used constantly in story mode to refer to them as the "Most Despicable and Disastrous Pair" and other things. Honestly, I think Tough-Luckiest sounds so terrible that I'd rather not leave it up any longer than necessary. Sorry Splashman, it just sounds really really awful to me, and not in the way intended. Clarste (talk) 11:44, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
I suppose for comparison, over at thpatch we (informally) decided on changing all instances of 最凶最悪 to "worst, most disastrous" (and 最凶 to "most disastrous") a while back to make them all consistent. Polaris (talk) 19:09, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Joon's Appearance

From the looks of Joon's appearance, is she some kind of celebrity or something? Nintenchris5963 (talk) 03:11, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

I think she just likes expensive looking stuff lol --Yamaxandu (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
She reminded me of Shuuka Hanazono from Idol Time PriPara. Nintenchris5963 (talk) 05:26, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Joon's Personality

And here I thought and hoping that Joon is gonna end her sentences with "desuwa~" and laugh with "ohohoho~" as well as saying "gokigenyou~". Nintenchris5963 (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2019 (UCT)

Discord channel #en-wiki-discussion on adding "Jo'on" to nameAlt in the character infobox

Context: Admin KyoriAsh (zh) shared part of a very long DM he recieved from user Nub arguing that there is a double standard allowing Rei'sen on the Reisen page but not allowing Jo'on on the Joon page

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 6:14 AM The guideline on nameAlt is not clear (all it says is "Alter. name or alter./incorrect romaji possibly in use (opt.))" and the Policy suggests this as a general rule of thumb for "mistakes and mistranslations" so it's a contradiction in policy and guideline Image

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 6:35 AM "Alternate name or alternate/incorrect romaji possibly in use" means that this includes ALL of the following:

Yuyuko Saigyouzi (alternate romanization based on different romanization style from official source, pmss)

Crownpeace (alternate romanization based on different interpretation of Katakana from official source, th18.5)

Jo'on Yorigami (alternate, technically incorrect by any romanization standard spelling used in fan community for the sake of being a [still incorrect] pronunciation aid)

Rei'sen (alternate, technically incorrect by any romanization standard spelling used in fan community for the sake of differentiating two characters in writing)

Raysen, Reysen (alternate romanization based on different interpretation of Katakana used in fan community to differentiate two characters in writing. Arguably deprecated and no longer in use due to the immense backlash it received in favor of Rei'sen)

Maribel Han (alternate romanization based on different interpretation of katakana. Technically not incorrect, still used on a lot of online gallery sites, but clearly incorrect given the extra contextual knowledge present regarding the real-life reference to the name)

Maéreverie Hearn (alternate romanization based on different interpretation of Katakana used in fan community to more closely match original Katakana pronunciation. Still is not a proper phonetic match). So according to the current general policy and the (lack of detailed) guideline/template for nameAlt, both Jo'on and Rei'sen get to stay. Do I agree with incorrect fan-spellings used as reading aids being on the same level of importance of alternate romanizations from official sources? No, but that is currently how it is

KyoriAsh (zh) — 07/23/2023 6:47 AM You might wanted to ping @en_crew for confirmation

Ayana (Rainspectre) — 07/23/2023 6:49 AM This all makes sense.

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 7:55 AM I agree with them staying

thistbh: reacted by Lebon14 and silentg

Novæmber 2088 — 07/23/2023 11:06 AM Never forget in ULiL/AoCF, You have Mononobe no Futo and Huziwara no Mokou in the same game and Hatano Kokoro

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 11:11 AM Hatano and Hiedano aren't that crazy mistakes i guess

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 12:15 PM There's no correct romanization, only the appropriate romanization, period.

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 12:17 PM How about we remove any and all romanizations that aren't correct or official :doremysmug: No need to argue about any of it anymore

Novæmber 2088 — 07/23/2023 12:19 PM Hoan Meirin

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 12:19 PM At this point I think people just like arguing and doing it for fun, which I don't really mind

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 12:21 PM Ah, yes, the moon rabbit,

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 12:23 PM Touhou wiki for pagename, hepburn, nihon and kunrei for alt name and all official (mis)spellings on the separate page

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 12:24 PM When the source had no consistent spelling the result can only be as inconsistent

DalagisiPizza (Vi) — 07/23/2023 1:19 PM Who ping pong I will destroy

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 1:23 PM Get used to it, kyori does it often

DalagisiPizza (Vi) — 07/23/2023 2:45 PM Destruction G uy — 07/23/2023 3:13 PM Please don't make any of these changes. These changes are bad and will hurt the community. Thank you. Shooting for the "most accurate translation possible" usually only makes things worse and more confusing for everyone else (thinking about dialogue translations especially)

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:16 PM

ZUNlaugh:

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:16 PM Huh What is happening

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:17 PM pretty much this yeah

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:22 PM when I say "incorrect" it means "does not follow the conventions of any common existing romanization style" i'm not saying any one romanization style is more correct than the other (i do think it, i'm just not saying it here) but

jo'on < this

rei'sen < this

is not a thing in any romanization system of japanese and therefore it is incorrect

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:23 PM There is, see guidelines :doremysmug:

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:23 PM i'm speaking in general terms

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:24 PM I know lol But I do feel that having "commonly used alternate romanizations" as anything other than redirects is pointless ZUN's typos at least matter, community's typos not so much

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:26 PM and re: this

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:27 PM That's fine, it's not like ZUN is going to grade the english community on accuracy

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:27 PM i mean, are you interpreting the words "accurate translation" as being "translation without localization and with no consideration of context"?

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:27 PM If it's helpful for pronunciation, what everyone knows, and makes it a more interesting name, genuinely why bother?

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM because it's not helpful for pronunciation because if you follow english pronunciation rules it also gives you the wrong sound :ZUNeek:

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM I've read a lot of translations where it seemed like the interest was more on maximizing accuracy rather than localizing

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM It's not helpful though lol

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM yeah, a lot of the translation on the wiki already are like that and also full of mistakes on top of that i'm strawmanning you to shit here i know and i apologize

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM no it's okay

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM but i'm just confused as to what the argument is

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM What are we translating though

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:28 PM yeah

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:29 PM and yeah this, touhou wiki is far from perfect as-is i'd love to contribute but I only have so many lives to live at once

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:29 PM I read that big post about how under different guidelines we should rename a dozen character in silly inconvenient ways and kinda panicked

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:29 PM Huh

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:29 PM like i guess establishing names as terminology is part of the translation process but i was just trying to be clever pointing out the contradiction in policy, hoping that someone would come up with better policy

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM I'd rather rei'sen and jo'on stay the same, that's pretty much it

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM ok the main point of that argument is whether these names should be included in the namealt space, isn't it?

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM That's not what the post said

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM yeah

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM i may have rushed

WhenLifeGetsMokou:

ok sorry carry on thwiki 👍

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM the articles already aren't jo'on and rei'sen they're joon and reisen

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:30 PM oh fucked

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:31 PM Man thought we'd use ZUN's spelling for the article name

ZUNlaugh:

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:31 PM but the discussion is whether the alt names, which are "commonly used in the community" but not based on any existing romanization scheme of japanese, and also incorrect in the context of english pronunciation, should be featured in the nameAlt line under the main name and portrait of the character according to the nameAlt template, they should

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:32 PM wait the first guy to bring up the issue in the Talk page makes a good point are we not supposed to call him Jun'ya Ota? it's Junya?

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:32 PM n' is a thing any other combination of letter and ' is not

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:32 PM ah alright

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:32 PM n is an exception because it is the only non-vowel single consonant mora in japanese and if you write Junya that potentially brings up the dilemma of if that's じゅんや or じゅにゃ as with any other combination of n followed by a single vowel

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:34 PM (you guys overthink things to an almost absurd degree, you know that right? :LeSanae:)

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 3:35 PM Sir that's from wikipedia

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:35 PM idk nova got into an argument with a guy and now the guy was mad enough to dm an admin and the guy was right according to current policy and template wording i don't think jo'on and rei'sen should be featured because they are incorrect, nonexistant romanizations, but the current template suggests that "incorrect" spellings are also valid to be listed

Guy — 07/23/2023 3:37 PM it's a non-argument but I feel like the apostrophes make the names more interesting in a way What about Chang'e btw

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 3:38 PM Jouga. 🙂 chinese name, i know jack shit about chinese, ask @Reale

马夏午 (Le Satori) — 07/23/2023 3:40 PM "it's heng o actually"

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 3:49 PM "Chang'e" is chinese, therefore the romanization rules are different But the original text constantly refers to her as "Jouga" (with the japanese pronunciation of the chinese characters) in japanese, so that's a problem "-NG" is a common ending for character pronunciations in chinese, as it marks a sound similar to "N" Then i assume "Chang" is one character, and the other is just "E"

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 3:53 PM Chang'e in search result gives you the corresponding mythos, jouga has nothing relevant, thus Chang'e

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 4:01 PM Apostrophe is used in pinyin system as a separator where sometimes you have to use it, i.e. Xi'an, a city name, 2 characters, vs Xian, celestial, 1 character Change simply does not exist in pinyin, it's an invalid combination

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 4:24 PM Well, it could be parsed as "Chan-Ge", which is the point of the disambiguation

Nub — 07/23/2023 4:28 PM My full dm to Ash

I am asking that either "Jo'on Yorigami" be added to nameAlt in the character infobox on the Joon page, or that "Rei'sen, Reysen" be removed from nameAlt in the character infobox on the Reisen page.
The reason i brought up Rei'sen is because it does not come from official sources. It was never said or written down by ZUN, it does not appear in any game files or official publications. it was 100% fan created. This is why I am comparing Rei'sen and Jo'on. Both are completely unofficial, fan-made spellings. Both are also not derived from the romaji guidelines of the wiki, or indeed any of the major romaji systems. And both are still commonly used in the fandom.
Novaember argues that this is not a double standard because Rei'sen is used to distinguish between two characters with phonetically identical names, while Jo'on is not. I believe the Reisen page already does enough to differentiate between the two Reisens. it includes the following notice at the top:
{about|the character from the Bougetsushou print works|the character introduced as a boss in Imperishable Night|Reisen Udongein Inaba}}
And in Background Information > Name it says:
The unofficial romaji "Rei'sen" is used to distinguish the name from reisen (鈴仙), used in Reisen Udongein Inaba's name
DracoGideon argues that this is not a double standard because Reisen does not have an official romaji spelling, while Joon does. This argument does not address the fact that Rei'sen and Reysen are not derived from the romaji guidelines of the wiki. From what I've seen, in cases where the name chosen for the page title is from an official source, nameAlt is used for other official romajis or not at all. In cases where the name chosen for the page title is an unofficial romaji derived from the wiki's romaji guidelines, nameAlt is used for official romajis or not at all.
What is the purpose of nameAlt? If nameAlt allows unofficial names that are not based on the romaji guidelines of the wiki, but have a long histoy of use by western fans and are still widely used by western fans, then both Rei'sen and Jo'on should be included in nameAlt. If nameAlt is only for alternative spellings from official sources, then both Rei'sen and Jo'on should be removed from nameAlt.
Imaginator brought up my edit on the discord. Imaginator reverted my edit, but he admits that he couldn't care less about the issue. He says he was acting on the will of another editor, Darkeyeside. But after I made my argument, Darkeyeside conceded that they could perhaps put a note in the article about the fan respelling. Despite this, Imaginator tells me that I cannot add the spelling to the page because the issue has not been resolved, because i have not changed anyone's mind on the discord. The fact is that it seems no one else on the discord (imaginator included) really cares about the issue that much.

DalagisiPizza (Vi) — 07/23/2023 4:54 PM I ain't reading that Nor will Ash

马夏午 (Le Satori) — 07/23/2023 4:54 PM what's the point of dm if you share it with everyone anyway

Archimedes — 07/23/2023 5:01 PM ⬆️

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 5:07 PM if imaginator is telling you you cannot add the names to namealt he is wrong

NaokiP — 07/23/2023 5:07 PM see here reason why

DarkeyeSide — 07/23/2023 5:22 PM I'm almost sure i didn't tell him it was wrong, i just didn't know the full context He said someone tried to "make an edit", asked why Jo'on is incorrect, and i answered

Novæmber 2088 — 07/23/2023 6:53 PM Imaginator never said that though Also if I wanted to be mean, I could bring up the pc98 midbosses have their own pages, or the nameless midbosses (great fairy, little devil) and their "alternative names" okay the pc98 midbosses part isn't mean, they seriously should not have their own pages

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 9:52 PM I'm simply astounded that someone can be so serious about an apostrophe that they can literally argue for months.

Novæmber 2088 — 07/23/2023 9:52 PM autismo

DracoGideon (en) — 07/23/2023 9:54 PM For separator in extremely long and confusing names (i.e. ancient kami names) the literature uses dash not apostrophe, which I do think might be a good addition. (i.e. where people constantly getting Nue as Neu, not Nu-e) But those are not "alternative names," those are spelling guides.


In the discussion above, the following users agreed with me: NaokiP, DarkeyeSide, Lebon14, silentg, Guy.
The following users disagreed with me: Novaember, DracoGideon.
Imaginator is on record stating he couldn't care less about the issue and does not want to be pinged about it, so I will not include him in the disagrees.
A total of 6 users (including myself) are on record as wanting "Jo'on Yorigami" to be added to nameAlt in the character infobox.
A total of 2 users are on record as not wanting "Jo'on Yorigami" to be added to nameAlt in the character infobox.
Since a majority of those users who cared to give their opinion are in favor of it, I will now be adding "Jo'on Yorigami" to nameAlt in the character infobox on the Joon Yorigami page.--Nubnuber (talk) 21:06, 29 July 2023 (UTC)