Difference between revisions of "Talk:List of Spell Cards"

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(Subpagify Revisited: new section)
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Right now, I'm thinking of breaking the page up into at least three sections. The first will cover characters debuting from Touhou 6-9. The second for Touhou 10+. The third for Uwabami Breakers. I'm thinking of naming them /Touhou Project 1, /Touhou Project 2, and /Uwabami Breakers, while this page will be a directory. Any other suggestions regarding reorganizing are welcome (more subsections? diff names?). This change will involve fixing up the character pages as well for transclusion. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 07:38, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 
Right now, I'm thinking of breaking the page up into at least three sections. The first will cover characters debuting from Touhou 6-9. The second for Touhou 10+. The third for Uwabami Breakers. I'm thinking of naming them /Touhou Project 1, /Touhou Project 2, and /Uwabami Breakers, while this page will be a directory. Any other suggestions regarding reorganizing are welcome (more subsections? diff names?). This change will involve fixing up the character pages as well for transclusion. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 07:38, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 +
:I was going to say go by game, but....that's impossible with this. Your idea might be the way of doing it (Uwabami Breakers is totally going to be the smallest list to do too lol...), since I can't think of any other way. x_x [[User:Xenomic|Xenomic]] 08:30, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 08:30, 20 April 2011

Spell Cards[edit]

Now that I have free time, I can work on this. I have left the first two entries as example of what the rest might look like. The list is still in its early stages, and things might change. If you have any ideas of what you think should go in this section, or how it should be organized, format, etc., then please leave a comment here. As well, if somebody wants to propose a novel design for presenting spell cards, then be my guest. I'm all ears. Kiefmaster99 18:12, 19 December 2010 (PST)

It's my latest idea, which must cause an art and pain... but, I think that most names of spell cards go like "X符「YYYY」", and that "符" in it should be unified to be translated or fixed as "card".
Why do I suggest so? "符" (fu) is a compination of "竹" and "付". "付" is of "人" and "寸", signified nice attachment of a hand (original meaning of "寸") with other's body ("人"'s) in touching it. According to it, "符" as older usage signified a set of two bamboo plates, which shows an official symbol when the two plates get touched together. The symbol was put in such a system in order to warrant the owner of a plate being assured as a well trader. Later, it came to be called "割符" (warifu, lit. split plates) or "勘合" (kangou, lit. "speculate and get two various things together"). You might have ever seen the latter in a textbook of Japanese history. Time went by, and people came to use the letter "符" as a kind of authoritative or powerful symbol, and the card with it. The latter usage had already been occupied by "札" (satsu/fuda), though... You can see the latter in "神符" and "護身符". Moreover, it now comes to mean "symbol, media to indicate something other" like "音符" (ompu, musical note) and "符号" (fugou, mark/sign/code). This is the all variation of current meanings of "符".
I think the translation of "符" in "X符「YYY」" should be "card", for the classification is "Spell Card" (Maybe ZUN created the name to think it's "まじないカード"), and we can see a card actually show up when a character is declaring... How do you, everyone seeing this, think about my opinion? --masuo64 Talk 08:18, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
That's an interesting idea, but after thinking about it, using "card" instead of "sign" seems too literal. "Sign" somehow sounds more poetic and magical than "card." Also, I seem to remember ZUN mentioning somewhere that not all spell cards were actual, physical cards. I might be mistaken, but it seems plausible. Basically, the important part isn't the card itself, but what's on the card. And "sign" is a very flexible word, and it can mean a great many things, but the basic meaning is "a representation of an idea," which seems to fit "Love Sign," etc. Going back to your example with the warifu, what's more important? The pieces of the plates themselves, or the symbols on the plates? Given one piece of a plate, it would be possible to make another plate that would fit with it, but unless you knew the symbol too, no one would take it as authentic. As far as まじないカード goes, I think ZUN already took care of that by calling all special attacks like that "spell cards." NForza 10:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, I'll let you guys go on about translations and stuff. I should note that I am busy again and will have limited time to work on this again, so if someone wants to expand on what I did, go ahead. I'll try to finish EoSD. Pages are also currently undergoing a subpage upheaval so linking to spell cards should be delayed for now. Another question - do you prefer "Soku" or another abbreviation?
For reference, http://www.geocities.jp/junberdx/touhou/spell1.html http://redliner.iza-yoi.net/touhou/spell1.html. Kiefmaster99 04:56, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Subpagify?[edit]

This page will getting longer and longer, so subpagify? - KyoriAsh 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

It may come down to that. However, I have no current plans to do so as of now, nor on how to organize. If it comes down to subpaging based on each character, then it may be easier to just transfer some of the info already here to the individual char pages, and this would have to be further discussed. Kiefmaster99 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

So what are we doing with this page? If nothing else is said, I can probably work on this when I get back tomorrow. Simple copy/paste job for me, and I have far too much free time so I can blow it on this. Xenomic 23:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead. I don't have much free time in the near future on my end. - Kiefmaster99 02:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Do excuse if the article looks a bit messy. I'm getting used to the layout of this table, and I'll be going back over it once I copy/pasted everything in to fill in missing data and whatnot. Unless someone can check that up for me later on x_x Xenomic 21:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Actually, here's a question...what do we do with spellcards that are of the same name but different spellcard numbers, like Satori's spellcards? I'm assuming only list it once and the first instance of it, correct? Xenomic 22:05, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Yep. With Satori's spell cards, do list the recollections she has used. Oh, treat all spell cards with the "-Easy-" modifier and such as the same name. - Kiefmaster99 22:53, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I see. Well, what I think I'll do is just go ahead and list what I CAN (since I already did all of PCB anyways...don't feel like going back over those right now), and leave the rest for someone to flesh out afterwards. That way it gets done a bit quicker and whatnot, but I'll keep that in mind for IN onwards (though I don't think those use the -Easy-, -Hard-, -Lunatic- modifier so I guess it's really only PCB for that...hmm...). Xenomic 23:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Pfffffft...and another thing that I forgot to ask....do we want to link to the spellcards themselves on each individual page they're on or not? That might take quite a while if we decide to do so x_x Xenomic 23:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Preferably yes. It's probably easier to just go by each game. Some character pages already have some SCs indexed too. - Kiefmaster99 23:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Mmm....probably, since you'd end up with something instead of "PCB", like "Perfect Cherry Blossom/Stage6#Spell Card 108" and then "PCB", which is pretty long....mmmm...but linking per game kinda defeats the purpose. I'll continue to go per game for now, and work on this more when I get done with what I Need to do. Xenomic 23:52, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

What I meant was 'to go through all of a game's SCs first, then move on to the next game' as opposed 'to going by character and spell card, and searching multiple games for that character'. Trying to put together Reimu's list for example was tiring because I opened multiple tabs for her first few spell cards, which was a pretty terrible approach. - Kiefmaster99 00:02, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh lol. That's what I was originally going to do anyways since that seemed to be the best approach. Tis why I set up all of those empty tables ahead of time so I know what's coming up next. Granted, some of these shouldn't be THAT hard, considering that not many of these characters appear in multiple games. Xenomic 00:24, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Ok, and about the grouping similar names thing...right now I'm starting at Maid Secret Skill "Killing Doll", "Killer Doll", and Illusion Sign "Killing Doll", all that has the same kanji "殺人ドール" (for Killing Doll) in the name. Should I group this together as currently shown or not? Xenomic 01:01, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
EDIT - Sorry about the mass editing spam here, but anyways, I think the way I'll handle things like this, if they're similar, is like with Sakuya, and for those with the same exact kanji (as with Youmu's Karmic Gust storymode spellcard from IaMP which is the same kanji for the move in PCB, but different name), I'll do the same while noting which game they're called that in and whatnot. Xenomic 01:01, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh, treat different 'signs' as different spell cards (as I have done w/ "Blazing Star" and "Fantasy Seal"). It's probably cleaner. - Kiefmaster99 05:00, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, ok then, though with Karmic Gust, it DOES use the exact same kanji so...not sure on that. I'll probably do that with Sakuya if nobody beats me to it then. Xenomic 05:17, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


And Done![edit]

That certainly took a bit of time to do, but all done with adding all spellcards here! All that's left is to add in comments and related spellcards (I'll fix up the number of spellcards here shortly). I'm gonna leave those sections to whoever wants to flesh it out! Enjoy~ Xenomic 07:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah...gotta love when there's spellcards that have different names but the exact same kanji. Makes things all the more confusing I say! I didn't even know that one card was even used in IaMP >_< Xenomic 21:06, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, TL inconsistencies annoy me. Anyways, thank you very much for filling in the blanks. I'll revise the list sometime. Maybe in a week when I'm less busy. - Kiefmaster99 00:17, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Making it public[edit]

So where should we place this? Encyclopedia? Took me awhile to find it --Tsukihime 12:43, 11 March 2011 (PST)

Transclusion to character profiles[edit]

I will be marking off sections to transclude to the character profiles. This way if new characters appear or new spell cards appear, edits can be made wherever and this list will reflect all changes. --Tsukihime 12:47, 11 March 2011 (PST)

Actually, since we aren't skipping headings, I can just use #lsth instead. --Tsukihime 12:50, 11 March 2011 (PST)
Oh, a few notes. You might want to start bottom-up, as some spell card links for the first few are non-existent. The sorting method is different, and I've included in GoM, which you should remove for now. I will probably create another column for non-game works or something. - Kiefmaster99 12:55, 11 March 2011 (PST)
Here's a transcluded example of Sanae's spellcards. Users will be unable to edit it from that page unless I explicitly give an edit link. I don't think it will be a problem if you include non-game works. All further changes that are made would not require any changes elsewhere (I'm not sure how many people would look at it either) --Tsukihime 13:10, 11 March 2011 (PST)
Okay then, I didn't know how that would work. In that case, I guess improving aesthetics might also help. - Kiefmaster99 13:13, 11 March 2011 (PST)
Maybe. I think it suits the overall look of the profile page though lol --Tsukihime 13:16, 11 March 2011 (PST)

Difficulty[edit]

Maybe add in wich difficulty that specific spell card is used? - Quwanti

Good idea. Although, what happens if a spellcard appears in multiple games? --Tsukihime 01:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm more iffy on that, mostly due to presentation. I don't imagine abbreviations would be a problem (E/N/H/L/Ex/Ph), but difficulty is game specific, so this might look a bit ugly. As of now though, I don't think any character/spell card shows up more than once in the main part of a difficulty-relevant game (EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, SA, UFO), yet. I did intend having hotlinks for the reason if the person wanted more detail on the spell card in games though, but if you can make it look good, then I don't see why not. - Kiefmaster99 01:51, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Hmm.. I did some thinking and for spell cards that is used in multiple games it is indeed hard. I did some experimenting on Reimu, and it worked out pretty good, I think. User: Use could be changed. And when it isn't used, St. 1: E/N/H/L/Ph/Ex/LW. In wich stage could be left out, but it is an possibility. - Quwanti 16:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Name Translated Comments Games Difficulty Other Works Related Spell Cards
Total: 40
霊符「夢想封印」 Spirit Sign "Fantasy Seal" EoSD*
PoFV*
UFO*
User: Use
User: Use
User: Use
Divine Spirit "Fantasy Seal", Spirit Sign "Fantasy Seal -Spread-, -Concentrate-, -Blink-, -Circle-"
夢符「封魔陣」 Dream Sign "Evil-Sealing Circle" EoSD*
PCB*
IN
IaMP*
Soku
User: Use
User: Use
St. 4A: E/N
User: Use
Boss: Boss
GoM Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Demon Binding Circle"
Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Dragon Slaying Circle"
It seems that the main limitation on this format is just that with spell card with multiple games, this can end up rather lengthy (i.p. for some key recurring SCs). Anyways, if you are considering reforming columns, then I am thinking of another revision that would have to be made - I would want to split up the "Works included" column into "Games" and "Other Works" (for example, GoM, SSiB, etc). - Kiefmaster99 18:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
It will be very long, yes. Especialy some cards for Marisa. And for a new column. See the updated version of the one above. And I could not find a good "Difficulty" for that one in Hisoutensoku. - Quwanti 18:58, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Changed table a bit. Well, at least the lengthiness only applies to a select few. With difficulty, I think "Usable" could stand by itself unless you also want to include the character subtype (A/B), and with fighters, given that SCs can occur in multiple character's scenarios, 'Story' or something is sufficient I guess (since they're referred to as Story Mode spell cards in their pages). - Kiefmaster99 19:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, so I am now going to apply this on some. I'm starting with Reimu, and then see how it looks. - Quwanti 14:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikitable Sortable[edit]

While browsing Wikipedia, I came across their style of tables. Conveniently, that type of table is offered here. This is an example of what it'd look like, preserving all other widths, etc.

Name Translated Comments Games Difficulty Other Works Related Spell Cards
Total: 40
霊符「夢想封印」 Spirit Sign "Fantasy Seal" EoSD*
PoFV*
UFO*
Use
Use
Use
Divine Spirit "Fantasy Seal"
夢符「封魔陣」 Dream Sign "Evil-Sealing Circle" EoSD*
PCB*
IN
IaMP*
Soku
Use
Use
St. 4A: E/N
Use
Story
GoM Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Demon Binding Circle"
Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Dragon Slaying Circle"
霊符「夢想封印 散」 Spirit Sign "Fantasy Seal -Spread-" PCB*
IN
Use
St. 4A: E/N
Scattered Spirit "Fantasy Seal -Fader-"

The best part is that it involves a minor adjustment of code, as only the header section needs to be replaced. This will add functionality to the table and allow for alphabetical sorting of spell card names, but unfortunately as there is no category for number, I think you have to reload the page to restore the original order. It also looks slightly better than the current table. Comments?

Oh, and while I'm on the topic of table modifying, it possible to adopt the Wikipedia style of widths as well if we want. And left-alignment.

Name Translated Comments Game Difficulty Other Works Related Spell Cards
Total: 40
霊符「夢想封印」 Spirit Sign "Fantasy Seal" EoSD*
PoFV*
UFO*
Use
Use
Use
Divine Spirit "Fantasy Seal"
夢符「封魔陣」 Dream Sign "Evil-Sealing Circle" EoSD*
PCB*
IN
IaMP*
Soku
Use
Use
St. 4A: E/N
Use
Story
GoM Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Demon Binding Circle"
Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Dragon Slaying Circle"
霊符「夢想封印 散」 Spirit Sign "Fantasy Seal -Spread-" PCB*
IN
Use
St. 4A: E/N
Scattered Spirit "Fantasy Seal -Fader-"

This has the advantage of having little weird compressed titles and utilizes end-user screen resolution, but comes at a cost of non-uniformity b/w each character list. - Kiefmaster99 22:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I like it. But I think the "games" part should not be sortable, unless there is a good sollution. Because now it is just alphabetic for the top game in the list, so you still can't have a good look in wich game that sertain card appeared. Quwanti 22:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Good point. A filter would be needed for that, as well as Other Works by extension. I've updated the tables with this change. - Kiefmaster99 23:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Liking how this is turning out! This page's come a long way I have to say ^^ Xenomic 08:15, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
I like how you specified exactly which columns to sort on. Now I can go change the Fangames tables so they make sense lol --Tsukihime 01:23, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Subpagify Revisited[edit]

As KyoriAsh mentioned months ago, this page will keep getting longer and longer. It's now the longest article on this wiki. With the addition of resortable tables as well, some people on slower connections probably have to wait a while for this page to load. The page has to be broken up into subpages. The question is: "How?".

Right now, I'm thinking of breaking the page up into at least three sections. The first will cover characters debuting from Touhou 6-9. The second for Touhou 10+. The third for Uwabami Breakers. I'm thinking of naming them /Touhou Project 1, /Touhou Project 2, and /Uwabami Breakers, while this page will be a directory. Any other suggestions regarding reorganizing are welcome (more subsections? diff names?). This change will involve fixing up the character pages as well for transclusion. - Kiefmaster99 07:38, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I was going to say go by game, but....that's impossible with this. Your idea might be the way of doing it (Uwabami Breakers is totally going to be the smallest list to do too lol...), since I can't think of any other way. x_x Xenomic 08:30, 20 April 2011 (UTC)