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Talk:Nicovideo Encyclopedia: Difference between revisions

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m (→‎Hold on, hold on: forgot to sign)
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:::Alright then, I'll join in and see what I can do with Yuyuko's page and several others. In the meantime I'm getting really busy with work in real life as well as ko wiki stuff so I might not have enough time to go through everything but eventually I'll get to them. --'''This message from [[User:Deathsoul4|DeltaSierra4]] was delivered on''' 03:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Alright then, I'll join in and see what I can do with Yuyuko's page and several others. In the meantime I'm getting really busy with work in real life as well as ko wiki stuff so I might not have enough time to go through everything but eventually I'll get to them. --'''This message from [[User:Deathsoul4|DeltaSierra4]] was delivered on''' 03:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)


:::Strongly disagree (unless I'm misunderstanding what's been said).  Edits should go back to before the Nicopedia info was added.  I don't edit much anymore, so I shouldn't have as much of a voice, but here's my take fwiw.  I think it's inappropriate to overwrite what other people have written unless the info is factually incorrect.  Revisions for grammar/spelling/etc, restructuring for template changes, and so on I understand, but sweeping delete-copy-pastes like what happened here invalidate the time and effort put into these pages by wiki contributors.  Why edit anything if it's later going to be superseded by a different wiki/source?  With that in mind - and as much as is feasible - the pre-Nicopedia edits should be restored (as I understand they have been) with later, non-nico edits added back.  If Tosiaki (or whoever else) would like to add info from Nicopedia, then that's fine, but it should be individual additions, not wholesale revisions. [[User:K.B.|K.B.]] 03:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Strongly disagree (unless I'm misunderstanding what's been said).  In any cases where existing info was overwritten, edits should go back to before the Nicopedia info was added.  I don't edit much anymore, so I shouldn't have as much of a voice, but here's my take fwiw.  I think it's inappropriate to overwrite what other people have written unless the info is factually incorrect.  Revisions for grammar/spelling/etc, restructuring for template changes, and so on I understand, but sweeping delete-copy-pastes like what seem to have happened here (again, if I'm understanding this correctly) invalidate the time and effort put into these pages by wiki contributors.  Why edit anything if it's later going to be superseded by a different wiki/source?  With that in mind - and as much as is feasible - the pre-Nicopedia edits should be restored (as I understand they have been) with later, non-nico edits added back.  If Tosiaki (or whoever else) would like to add info from Nicopedia, then that's fine, but it should be individual additions, not wholesale revisions. [[User:K.B.|K.B.]] 03:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)


== Who made these? ==
== Who made these? ==

Revision as of 03:52, 27 March 2012

Hold on, hold on

Soo, this suppose to be everything said on Nicovideo Encyclopedia? I don't know for sure what's going off, but if were moving all info to these pages, why are we also moving factual info off the char pages? I don't quite understand. Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 12:04, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Far as I can tell, this is what happened:

Tosiaki translates and transcribes Nicopedia stuff to the Touhou wiki. I don't believe he actually told anyone that this stuff was coming from Nicopedia. For several pages, he placed the Nicopedia stuff OVER what was currently on the page if the two overlapped (which logically made sense in some cases, cause otherwise he'd be repeating stuff already stated on the page). Thus many character facts were removed and replaced with Nicopedia's version of those facts (but they were still factual) while many other... debatable things from Nicopedia came in too, as the entirety of Nicopedia was transcribed and came onto each character's page.

I don't believe anyone knew this was a direct translation of nicopedia stuff and thought it was just Tosiaki's own writings (well, that was the case for me). Regardless, over the course of some months, other wiki edittors continued updating and adding stuff to the wiki, often modifying or adding new factual information to the character pages (which meant modifying or adding new facts to the nicopedia stuff)

After a bit too many questionable additions from Nicopedia for some people, explosions happened, anger was thrown around, words were said, and Tosiaki proceeded to remove the Nicopedia stuff from the characters' pages into this area. Somewhere along the line, it came to light that the original edits were translated transcriptions of Nicopedia (I think?). Unfortunately, by then, many characters have had so many other edits added to them that they were nigh unrecognizable from the Nicopedia stuff. Tosiaki removed it anyways cause... I dunno, sifting through it and segregating the nico stuff from the non-nico stuff would have been nigh impossible. Although I personally think he may have gone a bit overboard. Maribel's page in its entirety had nearly no Nicopedia stuff left after we all butchered each other in regards to Nicopedia's chart of speculations leading me to smash that thing with a hammer of rage before rebuilding it almost from the ground up.

At this point, someone should probably go around and start "repairing" the pages. Adding back factual stuff while keeping the more debatable stuff out of it, and then we can gradually add in the more debatable stuff as is appropriate. In some cases, something as simple as a revert may help start that process, but would be far from achieving that, I think. ...................please don't make me do it. QQ I was supposed to be on break until SoPM came out. Argh (...and yet, since the big Nico removal, I think I for Maribel and Flandre (incomplete) and Kief for Patchy (incomplete, I think?) are the only ones that made any restorations. Probably because no one else knows what the hell is going on (I know I didn't Oo) TiamatRoar 23:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Well I might consider joining in the process. I'm especially paying close attention to Yuyuko's page, and I was about to bring it up but didn't want to touch the sore wound just yet - Maybe I could've brought it up sometime in April when I would be less busy with certain stuff in my real life and ko wiki? To be honest I'm quite disappointed at how some factual stuff that could've stayed has been removed. I've been contemplating on carrying out a systematic revert-revising process on all Touhou characters that he has edited to make sure that only the good meat can remain. It'll be a long process, but it has to be done at some point.
Any ideas on this? Any "I agree"s or "I disagree"s? It seems like if I can carefully trace back on the edits done I could probably piece back some of the information that can be left on certain pages. --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 23:25, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
I think for some pages, simply re-adding EVERYTHING back before Tosiaki removed it to add to the Nicopedia encyclopedia page, and then removing the more questionable parts (or fixing the grammar etc on the less questionable parts that ended up sounding... odd) might work best. And then anything that's a grey area can be debated on and added in as appropriate. For others, however, they might require a more complex solution, depending on how hard or easy it is to discern what's factual, what's not, what's Nicopedia that should be reworded, what might be a bit too much of a copy and paste of Nicopedia to be ethically correct to leave in, whether or not something is too much of a stretch, notability, etc etc. In particularly bad cases, a complete revert to before Nicopedia was added at all may be appropriate (maybe, maybe not. I haven't looked over everything) TiamatRoar 23:45, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
I have pulled apart enough sentences as far as Patchy is concerned such that copying them is no longer an issue. My only question with Patchy is if the abilities subsection is part of the standard detail that is to be included in pages. If so, then I can restore it sans more debatable stuff. - Kiefmaster99 00:01, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Alright then, I'll join in and see what I can do with Yuyuko's page and several others. In the meantime I'm getting really busy with work in real life as well as ko wiki stuff so I might not have enough time to go through everything but eventually I'll get to them. --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 03:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Strongly disagree (unless I'm misunderstanding what's been said). In any cases where existing info was overwritten, edits should go back to before the Nicopedia info was added. I don't edit much anymore, so I shouldn't have as much of a voice, but here's my take fwiw. I think it's inappropriate to overwrite what other people have written unless the info is factually incorrect. Revisions for grammar/spelling/etc, restructuring for template changes, and so on I understand, but sweeping delete-copy-pastes like what seem to have happened here (again, if I'm understanding this correctly) invalidate the time and effort put into these pages by wiki contributors. Why edit anything if it's later going to be superseded by a different wiki/source? With that in mind - and as much as is feasible - the pre-Nicopedia edits should be restored (as I understand they have been) with later, non-nico edits added back. If Tosiaki (or whoever else) would like to add info from Nicopedia, then that's fine, but it should be individual additions, not wholesale revisions. K.B. 03:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Who made these?

More to the point: has ZUN blessed these as canon? If he has, a link verifying this would be in order. These strike me as fan-made but there isn't any info about the creators and there aren't any links to the videos themselves. Clarification would be appreciated. K.B. 20:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

That's the thing: Some of these that I've been reading have never been mentioned by ZUN as canon, but Tosiaki's argument when he created these pages is that (@Tosiaki: Correct me if I'm wrong) these point to those things point to, and are somewhat important related matters to the canon materials. I'm still quite uncomfortable myself with having these on the touhou wiki, but, yeah, that was my two cents. --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 22:17, 26 March 2012 (UTC)