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Talk:Perfect Cherry Blossom/Music

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< Talk:Perfect Cherry Blossom
Revision as of 19:31, 18 October 2011 by KyoriAsh (talk | contribs) (Previous 2 talk topic added title)
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Music comment translation problem

Note: We need 62 characters per line, and 5 lines per section.

Should explanations of literary references and such in song titles be put on Music pages (like this one) instead of on the script translation pages? Maybe put them in both places?

Moving song title explanations to this page will unclutter the script translation pages a bit as well as lessen the need to edit multiple pages whenever a title's translation is updated, or more information about it is discovered.

--Deciare 12:05, 4 Jun 2005 (PDT)

What tone are these comments written? Jokingly? Mockingly? Is it serious at any point? Are there any native English speakers on this board who are even close to fluent? An editor of a translation who can't understand the language is kind of a joke, unfortunately. J5983 22:04, 18 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Should these comments be edited more extensively, at the risk of losing original meaning, or be left as they are in a more literal state? Can they be rewritten into a more coherent form? -Breathstealer 08:40, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Zun's comments' comment

ZUN's comments have usually been in a somewhat joking manner from the previous interviews. I think that given our limited resources and abilities, editing it down to a form that reads well is sufficient until someone comes along with a high level of proficiency with both Japanese and English.

Sometimes ZUN even ends off his blurb with a (*laughs). I've added back one of them but there simply isn't enough room to put everything in. I suppose we'll just have to make sure the text reads in a jovial manner. --ChronoReverse 16:27, 16 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Manual text

Where do you think a good place for the manual text describing the music tracks should go?

Stage 3 Theme

Something that bothered me for some time now:
The Doll Maker of Bucuresti - shouldn't that been Bucharest? It's written in katakana as ブクレシュチ, ZUN wrote it as ブクレシュティ, which would actually make more sense, since ティ is used to write a "ti"-sound from western languages, while チ is a "chi". I don't change it right away, since it's not really the "true" way of writing it in katakana, but one that sounds more reasonable.
I'm actually surprised, that nobody has asked this so far. - Arget 00:43, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I think Bucureşti or Bucuresti is better because Japanese normally say it as ブカレスト (bukaresuto), which might be loaned from German word "Bukarest". Normally Japanese call it Bukarest, not Bucureşti, but ZUN use the latter. So why don't we follow the original Romanian name? And about the topic of ブクレシュチ, you would be right. The present Japanese Romanization would be, frankly speaking, out of date. So they can't write down to distinguish the two sound in their proper writing system. Some Japanese are worring about this problem, then remake the system to write チ & ティ as ti & t'i. Of course it's not proper now...

Ink-Black/Sumizome

There might be a translation inconsistency between the new title of this song and one of Yuyuko's spell cards.

Spell Card: 桜符「完全なる墨染の桜 -封印-」
Cherry Blossom Sign "Perfect Cherry Blossom of Sumizome -Seal-"
(Sumizome: name of the spirit in a cherry tree in the Japanese play, "Seki no To")

Song Title: 幽雅に咲かせ、墨染の桜 ~ Border of Life (Yuuga ni sakase, Sumizome no sakura ~ Border of Life,
lit. "Bloom Nobly, Ink-black Cherry Blossoms ~ Border of Life"

I would be tempted to change "Sumizome" to "Ink-Black" in the spell card name, but there's a TL note. Your thoughts? Kiefmaster99 13:20, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Kobayashi's:
Literal translations of place/person names are retarded. It'd be like translating it as "source of the sun" instead of "Japan".
Additionally, it's far too late to change it - Bloom Nobly, Cherry Blossoms of Sumizome ~ Border of Life is the popular translation by now.
!8RstuPId2Y 22:12, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, just checked out that thread. When the song TL was changed to "Ink-black", I have a feeling that whoever changed it did not regard the TL note, probably because it only existed on the Spell Card page. When I noticed it was changed to "Ink-Black", I searched for other instances of Sumizome (in particular Yuyuko's penultimate SC) and found reasoning for its use. Thus, I will be reverting "Ink-Black" to "Sumizome" with the TL note unless anyone objects here.
With regards to your second argument though, I'm just going to quote T. Solamarle from the MoF music talk page
More correct translations should be preferred over incorrect "established" names.
With regards to putting TL notes on the Music Page, I argue it helps for understanding, plus its been done for references that only exist in the music title. - Kiefmaster99 01:49, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to defend my original edit and challenge the current translation note. While it is true that there is a character named Sumizome in the play "Seki No To", I don't think this is what ZUN was going for when naming this song. My main piece of evidence is the page for all variants of the spellcard "Cherry Blossom Sign 'Perfect Cherry Blossom of Sumizome'" on the Japanese Touhou Wiki. There it mentions a legend regarding someone named Kamutsuke no Mineo, who upon the death of his friend wrote the following poem: "Oh, cherry blossoms in the fields of Fukukusa: if you have a heart, bloom ink-black just for this year" (this is a rough translation. I'm not a poet; I was just going for the meaning). The legend goes on to say that after he finished writing the poem, the cherry blossoms near where his friend was buried all bloomed ink-black. While the article does say that the variety of cherry blossom sumizomezakura and the name of an area in Kyoto, Sumizome, come from this legend, I still think that the title of the song and spell card should have "ink-black" instead of "Sumizome". First of all, there's a connection between the poem and the title name in that they are both requesting cherry blossoms to bloom. Secondly, it's much easier for a native English speaker to understand. Even if they don't know the legend, it's only one step to have a note about the legend and the poem than to have the legend and the poem and mention the variety of sakura, especially since I think this is probably referring to the color ink-black rather than the variety. The character in "Seki no To" is an interesting connection, but consider this: the play was first performed in 1784, whereas the legend mentioned on the Japanese Wiki dates back to the Heian period (794-1185 AD). By the time "Seki no To" was written, That legend had long been in circulation, and if anything the name Sumizome probably refers back to that. Plus, the play isn't mentioned at all on the Japanese Wiki. I agree that literally translating names of people and places is dumb, but I am arguing that "sumizome" in the song/spell card names is not a proper name, but just a color. I will wait for any counterarguments before I change the names, but I'm not backing down just yet. Sensei-Hanzo 16:55, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Sounds convincing to me. NForza 04:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
If NForza agrees, then that's good enough for me. Went ahead and made the changes on both pages. Sensei-Hanzo 16:41, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
If NForza agrees? It fills my heart with such sadness to see you change that title. After all, Sumizome is the name of the spirit in a cherry tree in the Japanese play, "Seki no To". We are dealing with a spirit sealed inside a tree, are we not? Code Slasher 02:28, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Did you even read what I wrote? I addressed the matter of Seki no To and I think it's secondary to the Kamutsuke no Mineo story. I agree it's a striking similarity, but it's not even mentioned on the Japanese Touhou Wiki. It's possible ZUN was going for a double meaning, but I think that ink-black should take priority. I don't mind if you want to add a note about the similarity to the play, though. Sensei-Hanzo 19:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Who done it

What's the punctuation at the end of "妖々跋扈 ~Who done it"? Several Japanese sites I've seen have it listed with an exclamation point at the end while here we have [had] it as "妖々跋扈 ~ Who done it?". Some clarification on which one is more correct would appreciated. !8RstuPId2Y 02:21, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

In the Japanese version of the official game, it's an exclamation mark. Presumably whoever did the translation on the wiki (and the patch) decided that a question mark was more grammatically accurate. DerangedTHMN 04:42, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
In that case, I'll go ahead and change the English translation back to an exclamation point, since we should never change the English section of the original title, no matter how wrong it is. After all, it is perfectly acceptable in some cases to use an exclamation point instead of a question mark for extra emphasis for a question. Code Slasher 02:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)