Talk:Sariel

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Sariel's Gender[edit]

I don't recall Sariel's EXACT gender being female but I do know that some fanworks depict it (I'm calling Sariel an 'it' because I don't know the gender) as being female, male, genderless, or both, so who the hell continues to put that Sariel is a female (by using she or her)? AkaiChounokitsune(also known as Akai Kitsune)

This is Touhou, dude - KyoriAsh 13:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Yep, pretty much explains everything :P Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 13:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Be that as it as may but Sariel's gender has naver been revealed ingame and Zun didn't mention it either and there are some males in Touhou but they're not as significant as girls and I don't see how Sariel's Gender is female when it hasn't been revealed in the first goddammit place so the way I see it, don't post Sariel's Gender as female unless there is proof to back that up! And besides just because the characters you see ingame are predominantly female doesn't make Sariel female, in fact, Sariel could be both.AkaiChounokitsune

For most characters in Highly Responsive to Prayers, however, their gender has not been specified. Therefore, it is not safe to make assumptions. This is the case for Sariel.--Tosiaki 13:35, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how Sariel's Gender is female when it hasn't been revealed in the first goddammit place
ZUN didn't mention the gender doesn't mean the gender is goddammit male, also, Touhou Project is Out-of-knowledge universe - KyoriAsh 14:43, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Ask ZUN if you wanted to clarify - KyoriAsh 14:44, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, and Sariel's gender could be neither, so there. AkaiChounokitsune

Come to think of it, how can someone be neither? That's like saying the opposite, the Evil Eye Sigma having a gender, when it's simply a machine... The closest you can say is "intersex", but I don't know why this is debatable. Please bare in mind that what it says on the page is in the region of "probably". Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 15:37, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
And yes, with what I said should bare in mind that this is Touhou. ZUN always likes to gives things a twist. Tony64 (Talk/Con.)
I'd say for the most part, to keep things simple, the tongue-in-cheek rule is "all Touhou characters are female unless otherwise noted". ("She" tends to be the preferred gender neutral pronoun rather than "He" around here.) Ibaraki Ibuki 20:41, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Unless someone can come up with conclusive evidence that the characters who showed up only in Highly Responsive to Prayers are indeed female, it should remain as "he/she."--Tosiaki 01:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
"all Touhou characters are female unless otherwise noted"←Has ZUN said this himself? If not, then it is only a made-up rule, not an official one.--Tosiaki 01:29, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

As an additional rule, all characters that have showed up only in Highly Responsive to Prayers should be referred to "he/she."--Tosiaki 01:24, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

You mean including Mima, Konngara, and Elis? Dunno what everyone thinks about Konngara but probably Mima could be addressed as "she". Also, instead of using articles like "he/she" why don't we just call them by their names? --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 01:46, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, not including Mima, although I have to search around to see if Mima has been specifically referred to as female (I do think there should be an instance of that). However, it does seem like "he/she" is simply bad style. Using "he or she" is not a very good writing style either. Simply saying the name of the character seems to be the best idea.--Tosiaki 02:07, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
If you do not like "he or she", then why not "they"? Code Slasher (talk) 01:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Writing "they is" is incredibly awkward (and incorrect) style, so "they are" would be necessary in exchange – that said, though, "they" implies the reference of more than one being due to English being a huge jerk with its frustratingly gender-reliant pronouns. I think it'd be best to use vague pronominals for Sariel, such as "this/the [noun]" with the noun changing based on the sentence, much in the way that Sariel's page already does. Repeating his/her/its name over and over again is dizzying. That said, why not just refer to Sariel as an "it"? Compare in this example sentence:
But since Sariel has no profile and exchanges no dialogue with Reimu, nothing else is known about them.
But since Sariel has no profile and exchanges no dialogue with Reimu, nothing else is known about this angel.
But since Sariel has no profile and exchanges no dialogue with Reimu, nothing else is known about it.
But since Sariel has no profile and exchanges no dialogue with Reimu, nothing else is known about him/her.
At least for myself, I prefer the third, then the second, and don't like the other two, but I'd like to hear what others think about this. La bruja pícaro (talk) 02:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
You can't refer to a person as the lowly "it". As English has no gender-neutral singular pronoun which can be used to describe a person, you have to get a bit creative and either reword the sentence to avoid the situation in the first place, or use a different noun. "This angel" is a sensible solution. I would use "this character". - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 02:19, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I was thinking about "it" in reference to Sariel's species, but looking back on it, that was a weird thought. I agree with the pronominal option. La bruja pícaro (talk) 02:46, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Music Name?[edit]

Well I Have A Question For Anyone To Anwser, Sariel's 2nd Theme, Is It Death Will Take You With Me, Or We Shall Die Together? Also To Mamizou A.K.A. Momiji, After Having To Take That Week Off, I'm A Little On Edge, I'm Sorry For Everything, & One Last Question Why Did You Need A Consensus To Use "Mystical" Intead Of Mystic? AWMonopolyMan 000 (talk) 17:50, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I can't say too much about the last point, but... haha, my practical stalking aside, I have my own apologies to say. I've probably come off as incredibly argumentative and acting "better-than-thou", myself, so I'm going to go ahead and apologize to you here and Quwanti from the last thread since I wasn't so outright with it then. I love debate, but sometimes I get too much into it. I'll patch up my attitude from now on. Now then, Sariel's second theme. I can't speak precisely about it, so take all of this with a grain of salt, but I literally approximate 死なばもろとも (shinaba morotomo) as, "if die [then die] together". I'm not familiar with the phrase in particular, but there's a small Japanese article on weblio that says that it's something to the effect of, "At the time of death, together." Think about it this way: both sentences are somewhat synonymous such that when death occurs, it happens to both individuals involved... um, so to speak. There are a lot of people that can phrase or even translate it better than me. If I really have to force myself to pick one of the two titles, I prefer "Death Will Take You With Me" since it's vague as to when it'll happen, if it does. That said, "We Shall Die Together" isn't wrong, just, sliiightly less nuanced. La bruja pícaro (talk) 19:15, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
The current TL listed on Highly Responsive to Prayers/Music is "We Shall Die Together". The mouse-over on this page lists it as "Death Will Take You With Me". List by Song/HRtP lists it as "You shall be forced to die all together if I die".
In general, TLs listed on the game's music page (HRtP/Music) has priority over all other translations, and should be treated as the "master", if you will. All other translations should stem from that. The mouse-overs originate from MediaWiki:SongSource.js; the problem is that it's protected from editing from standard editors, so it tends to fall out of date whenever a TL change occurs.
To address the last comment, if another editor disagrees with the change, then you have to discuss why your TL is better, etc.
Also, please use sentence case; it's easier on the eyes. Thanks. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 05:20, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Haha, I'm nowhere near as experienced as so many of the translators on this Wiki, so I'll trust in their judgment before I argue for my own. La bruja pícaro (talk) 06:03, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Please poke me about song name inconsistencies, and I'll update SongSource.js. :3 Mamizou (talk) 04:20, 7 May 2013 (UTC)