Difference between revisions of "Talk:Tenshi Hinanawi"

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(Chiko)
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If I may ask, where exactly does this come from? I...actually don't recall ever seeing this actually. o.o;;  [[User:Xenomic|Xenomic]] ([[User talk:Xenomic|talk]]) 02:00, 25 December 2012 (EST)
 
If I may ask, where exactly does this come from? I...actually don't recall ever seeing this actually. o.o;;  [[User:Xenomic|Xenomic]] ([[User talk:Xenomic|talk]]) 02:00, 25 December 2012 (EST)
 
:SWR's omake.txt. 地子(ちこ) [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] ([[User talk:Kiefmaster99|talk]]) 02:06, 25 December 2012 (EST)
 
:SWR's omake.txt. 地子(ちこ) [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] ([[User talk:Kiefmaster99|talk]]) 02:06, 25 December 2012 (EST)
 +
::Ah, I see. Tried looking for the omake, but can't seem to find it on the wiki. Do we actually have this somewhere, or am I just blind and not able to find it? x_x;; [[User:Xenomic|Xenomic]] ([[User talk:Xenomic|talk]]) 02:15, 25 December 2012 (EST)

Revision as of 07:15, 25 December 2012

Ah it's kinda strange, If Tensi had a relationship w/ Iku... Since Iku knows Tensi somehow.

the Hinanai Clan safeguards the "keystone" that can relieve earthquakes; not to mention the sword that Tenshi uses can alter the weather. So Iku, as messenger, interprets the foreboding clouds and reports the the Celestails who decides to either suppress the event or allow its passing. At least, I think that's how it works.

Another noteworthy point is that Tenshi considers herself above Iku; who, in turn, doesn't refute the point (in Iku's scenario).

Question about "天子"[edit]

The character of her name literally means this: Hi is "compare, comparative, rather", the former na is "many, comfort, calm", the latter na "name, authority", i "be, live", ten "sky, heaven", shi "master".

Isn't the 子 in Tenshi's name the kanji for "child"?

LordAgamemnon 00:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

It means "master" and also "child", though that kind of "child" is more used when referring to a boy. Wouldn't make too much sense in this case, right? - Arget 01:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Well, her last spell theme is called "Bhava-agra As Seen Through a Child's Mind," so I think both are implying that she's somewhat childish and/or spoiled. Well, that's just my opinion.Yggdrasil325 04:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I thought Tenshi mean's "angel"?
I guess her name implies "angel" (mainly indicating celestial, though), too. But... concerning "子", it means "child" being read as "ko", "master" being read as "shi". Anyway, in presentday Japanese "shi" is rarely used, and "ko" is always used referring to girl. So, the pronunciation of "Tenko" was born. I live also the way to pronounce "Tenko", so pretty, although I dislike the people to call her "Tenko" only. --Masuo64 04:48, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
On an somewhat unrelated note, Rikaichan translates the kanji as "Emperor" and only as that. Same goes for two sites I checked. Funnily enough, I first heard it's meaning as "angel" too, prolly like everyone here. Anyone able to explain? - Arget 15:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I forgot that word! A famous letter from Shoutoku Taishi said "日出づる國の天子より..." (Hi izuru kuni no tenshi yori.., from the emperor of the country where the sun rises...) Yap, this is the 1st word we should get. But... I don't think of it as proper word to explain her. I can't imagine the scene she's calling herself as emperor proudly. She's only kamatte chan, I suppose. --Masuo64 16:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
No, I'm pretty certain 子 means child, or something derived from. I even did a dictionary search and I couldn't find any words that came up that were related to being skillful. 電子 means an electron, which is derived from electricity, which pretty much illustrates the "derived from" meaning. As far as 天子 goes, you're the Emperor if you're the son of Heaven, which the kanji actually mean. As far as 子 meaning master, I could see it only if it means "young, unmarried man". -Caelk 23:58, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Consult Japanese dictionary. "子" also has a meaning indicating "great person", for example, like "孔子", "君子", and "子爵". As Tenshi's high birth class & too proud address, her name must imply her character, I think. What do you think about this, Caelk? --Masuo64 10:00, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
The first seems to be the actual Chinese name of Confucius, so I don't think that implies meaning in this case. As for the other two, I'm seeing 子 attached to kanji that seem to or can imply nobility or rank. 家君, 大君, 暴君... and for 子爵, the second kanji clearly indicates nobility. I'm sorry I'm not seeing it, but after over 900 words with 子 anywhere in them (and looking a second time), I'm still not coming up with anything. If you really think 子 implies greatness on its own... well, I might have to trust you, 'cause I definitely can't find any correlation. -Caelk 11:24, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, that usage was already abandoned in Japan, approximately 1300 years ago. But indeed, there was originally such a way. So I will revert the current edition, OK?
And... umm, just to let you know... The former, about 子爵. I'm sorry. It was a pejorative, a little lower rank in the extra-ancient China, which was given to the subordinating local bosses. So that "子" means something like "small". My explanation was wrong, I'm sorry. And the latter, about "孔子". As Wiktionary shows, the ancient Chinese use of "子" was like that, Caelk. The "子" of "孔子" isn't the part of his whole name, but the suffix indicating him as great person, in this case, teacher or philosopher. And in fact, "孔" is his family name. So literal meaning is "Master Kong" or "Teacher Kong". It's also another instance that there are similar cases like "孟子", "荀子", "韓非子", etc. That's complements, yeah. --Masuo64 17:57, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
Abandoned in the 700s, or before? When did writing come to Japan? O_o
Well, my understanding of the languages leads me to thing that the "great person" meaning is more Chinese than Japanese (and not modern Japanese), but if you're entirely convinced that the ancient meaning is the correct meaning, then I'll just trust you on this one. -Caelk 10:34, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Anyway does people forget that she was once name 地子 (chiko) when she was still on earth. meaning child of earth. When she move to heaven she just change it to 天子 (tenshi) meaning child of heaven. given her spoilt character, she use the pronouciation of tenshi as in emperor is nothing strange. she does deem herself highter then all the earth crawler. 220.255.7.158 15:09, February 22, 2010 (UTC) 3x more anonymous

Tenshi's name dissection and the entire discussion above is a brilliant display of useless (and just plain wrong) over-analysis at its finest. The fact that Japan itself had no clue when they saw the kanji at how it would be pronounced already indicates the entire kanji composition might as well have been Zun rolling dice. The only remotely legitimate analysis would be "child of heaven." Sibladeko 15:44, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

But "child of heaven", as which I would rather not translate "tenshi", also means "king", doesn't it? Double meaning of "a sophisticated girl from heaven" & "an impudent tomboy behaving like king", how cute! This word is so popular that an ordinary Japanese dictionary lists it. It is a reference of kanji's history that makes the sentences unclear, concrete in order to explain it to non-Japanese people. --Masuo64 17:26, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Chiquita Dragonforce?[edit]

I heard some people are calling Tenshi as "Chiquita Dragonforce", which comes from "Chiquita Banana" & "Dragonforce". But I don't know where and how such a name was created. Is it related with Touhou imageboard or 4chan? Could Anybody explain it? Is that name worth being added? --Masuo64 16:25, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

The name "Chiquita" originated because her design is believed to resemble that of the Chiquita mascot. As for Dragonforce, it supposedly came from a misconception that she was a dragon (as a result of idiotic translators), not a Celestial, and when someone saw the word "dragon," they immediately thought of DragonForce. I heard that it originated on 4chan, but I hardly ever see that name brought up there, if at all. In any case, it's a generally obscure fun fact, and there's not much to support it. I'm not sure it's worth adding, but I'm not the one who decides that. --ArseneLupin3 19:52, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
Actually it was there until some weeks ago, when someone randomly deleted it. Didn't really bother me, as I've never seen anyone call her that anyway. Arget 12:48, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
One of the reasons this held some popularity was that it combined the "hat of fruit" oddity that seems bizarre to many Anglophones (and of course Chiquita brand bananas) but that it also included the 4chan gold meme where users kept upping the hidden levels of elite membership and "DragonForce", being the increasingly popular Symphonic Power Metal band made it a popular label. So the difference is between "Chiquita Regular" and "Chiquita Premium" and OMGWTFBBQ "CHIQUITA DRAGONFORCE". TheTrueBlue 18:53, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Hinanawi?[edit]

If it's spelled "Tewi" and not "Tei", then why is it "Hinanai" instead of "Hinanawi"? Is it just how it was romanized in the game? NForza 05:57, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering the same for a while now too. This seems to be inconsistent. - Kiefmaster99 15:26, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to revisit this issue. The fact that "てゐ" is "Tewi" means that "ひななゐ" must be "Hinanawi". Unless somebody objects to this, I will be moving this article in a week. Kiefmaster99 07:26, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
The pronounciation for "てゐ" as Tewi is obsolete, should be Tei, same for Hinanai instead of "Hinanawi" - KyoriAsh 07:34, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
You are right. The pronunciation for 'wi' is the same as for 'i'. However, I would prefer to use 'wi' for three reasons. First, although it is now obsolete, ZUN elected to use it. Given the context that Tewi and Tenshi were born a long tome ago, they could very well have had 'wi' inserted into their names. Thus, ZUN desires to preserve those kana. Second is preservation of translation. If 'i' is used in place of 'wi', I will assume that い is used. This is not the case for Tewi or Hinanawi since ZUN's works do not state it as such. Third is applicability. This is a bit speculative on my part, but I don't remember such kana reform occurring in Gensokyo. The pronunciation problem could be alleviated with a footnote or audio recording. Kiefmaster99 15:15, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Hmm... so go for Wi instead of I? and yes I know that should be "i" and should be "wi". well the name for Tenshi in English, as in the game, is potrayed as Hinanai, instead of Hinanawi, though - KyoriAsh 17:29, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
I didn't even know there was a --Tsukihime 17:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
We often ignore official spellings anyways (Kunrei -> Hepburn). I will also add a similar note for Hinanawi as was for Tewi. Kiefmaster99 18:09, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Also see spelling discrepancies for future reference. Kiefmaster99 03:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
There are still a few "Hinanai's" left. Which should be changed and which should be kept? For instance, take this sentence. "The meaning of Hina isn't clear, but the official profile says the Hinanai clan served the Nai clan in their life, so hina could mean "young chicken, small"". Pufferfish101 08:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, sloppy editing. All "Hinanai" with reference to the character should be "Hinanawi". I don't know how to deal with etymologies or "Nai". Kiefmaster99 08:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Ah, alright. Also, as I'm assuming this name change will be sitewide, what to do about, say, pages like this one? The Grimoire of Marisa/Tenshi Hinanai's Spell Cards Should we move the page to fit the new title? Pufferfish101 09:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes, this change would have to be site-wide. Kiefmaster99 09:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm guessing if we just type in "Hinanai" in the search bar it'll give us every page where the word comes in? --Tsukihime 13:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes, you can also semi-automate the process of editing the pages by using the AutoWikiBrowser Master Bigode 14:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I found a line on http://dankadi.blog26.fc2.com/blog-entry-76.html that may help deal with "Nai".
>神社の名前でもある「なゐ(ない)」は地震を意味する古語で、昔は地震をなゐとも読んでいたそうです。地震の神として他に知られているのは、要石がある鹿島神宮の武甕槌神(タケミカヅチノオオカミ)など。
If I'm guessing correctly, "Nawi" is/was acceptable. Can someone confirm? Thanks. Also, since "wi" is indeed obsolete, maybe this should be used once at first mention? Kiefmaster99 20:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Tenshi's sword[edit]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Tenshi's shapeshifting sword looks just like a lightsaber?

I've always thought it was a paint-brush. I still think it's a paint-brush --Tsukihime 03:32, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Looks like an ordinary stick to me (that is... after I started playing Tendou Blade and YTQR) Deathsoul4 03:55, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


Chiko[edit]

If I may ask, where exactly does this come from? I...actually don't recall ever seeing this actually. o.o;; Xenomic (talk) 02:00, 25 December 2012 (EST)

SWR's omake.txt. 地子(ちこ) - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 02:06, 25 December 2012 (EST)
Ah, I see. Tried looking for the omake, but can't seem to find it on the wiki. Do we actually have this somewhere, or am I just blind and not able to find it? x_x;; Xenomic (talk) 02:15, 25 December 2012 (EST)