Talk:Wily Beast and Weakest Creature/Characters

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etarnity larva 2: electric boogaloo

We should probably come to some sort of consensus re:Eika/Youka for now? (It'll probably get unified as one or the other when the full version comes out, but just for the time being.) It's "Eika" in her character title graphic, but "Youka" in the omake.txt and the text in the upper-left. I vote Youka for now, just because that's what it is for two out of three sources, but whatever everyone agrees on is fine by me. Gilde (talk) 11:42, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

I should mention that "Eika" is also used in the music room, which I would assume was written later than the omake (on what grounds? Gut feeling I guess lol). That said, the names are even with 2 instances each. Personally I prefer "Eika" more as it alliterates with "Ebisu" but that's just my taste. --Naudiz (talk) 17:15, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
The omake.txt and top left of the screen say "Youka" but the character introduction screen in-game and dialogue in-game say "Eika". Narumi had a similar issue, her top left screen name was "Naruko" yet her introduction screen name was "Narumi". In the HSiFS interview, ZUN said he initially had Naruko but changed it to Narumi later, accidentally leaving some parts unchanged. This implies that he considers the character introduction screen the most important, meaning it should have the most recent changes if any. Also, I'm pretty sure the omake.txt is written before he does anything as it's the backstory of the character, right? Narumi was still called "Naruko" on the omake. For now it seems to me that "Eika" is the most likely choice, but it could always be Youka too. Any other thoughts on this? If it's wrong we could always just change it in 3 months when the game releases.
Ennin (talk) 17:46, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Honestly, in a case like this since it almost feels like a tossup, I'd just use the version that's used the most. Title picture when introduced, name in English in upper corner, in game dialogue, omake, music room, etc. The version that's used the least amount of times is most likely the version ZUN forgot to get rid of.Megaman-Omega (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Ohhh yeah the music room, I'd forgotten about that one. Yeah, if it's 2 for 2, then my gut feeling is also that the music room and title graphic came later, so Eika. (also Eika is the cuter-sounding name :v) Gilde (talk) 22:59, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Ah, then can someone move the page Youka back to Eika? I'm unable to do that :p
Ennin (talk) 12:03, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

about the Yachie and Saki

i strongly think "Kiketsu Unit(鬼傑組)" and "Keiga Unit(勁牙組)" is a Wrong Translation.

during the Reimu Extra stage with Eagle Spirit, Eagle Spirit talk like this. - 51:29

Eagle : こいつは, 剛欲同盟の宿敵だ 生き方に誇りも何も持っていない暴力集団の長だよ

"She's a sworn enemy of Gouyoku Alliance. a Leader of criminal gangs who doesn't even have a respect in the way of her life."

Eagle spirit call saki as a Leader of "criminal gangs(暴力集団 : Boryoku-Shuudan)".

according to the Japanese National Police Agency(NPA) white paper, "Boryoku-Shuudan(暴力集団)" is another word for "Boryokudan(暴力団)". a Organized Crime such as Yakuzas.

also, Yachie and Saki called as a "Kumicho(組長)". it means a "Head of Family".

so i think "Kiketsu Family" "Keiga Family" is more correct translation. ww1541 (talk) 05:50, 12 August 2019‎ (UTC)

Oh dang, thank you very much; I hadn't caught that particular line yet. Family it is! Gilde (talk) 07:27, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Primate Garden

Seems like the best spot to put this right now. You should absolutely be using "Primate Garden". It's so much less clumsy than "Garden of Man's Spirit", it means the same thing, and it also has this strange cool factor. Please use it. Despatche (talk) 07:10, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

I did in fact put it down as "Primate Garden" at first, for the reasons you described. Two reasons for the change:
1. Even after Mayumi and Keiki take over and turn it into a big human-led techno-fortress, they still call it the 霊長園. As several others pointed out to me, 霊長類 is actually derived from 万物の霊長, a term originating in Chinese classics that describes mankind as "the supreme spirit (霊長) of all creatures", which was then backported as a translation of the English "primate". (1, 2)
It wouldn't be appropriate for the glorious liberators of humanity to keep referring to humans with a clinical-sounding zoological term like "primate" the same way the animals did. So, "Garden of Man" / "Garden of Humanity" were suggested as alternatives that would work for both the "human zoo" and "human utopia" contexts. Since "primate" derives from the Latin primus, "Garden of Primus" / "Primus Garden" / etc. would also work great! ...If it weren't for the second reason.
2. There's an explicit pun on 霊長園 and 霊園 (graveyard) in Marisa's Stage 5 dialogue. Since it's also a literal burial mound full of human ghosts. Hence "Garden of Man's Spirit". If you'd like to come up with a pun on "garden" and "graveyard" that's less "clumsy", feel free. Gilde (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This is the kind of thing that I would just not translate and leave as "Reichouen" because of all the nuances. But anyway, personally I think it's a bad idea to use terms like "man" or "humanity" because there's specifically no 人 kanji being used, and the use of reichou/primate really drives home the idea that humans in the beast world are just another animal species. I think "Primate Garden" works well enough in the sense that "primate" also means "better than everyone" without even needing to deconstruct it into ``primus`` (although I suppose it's only in a religious context from what I can tell). I'd say "Primate Spirit Garden" isn't a bad idea for the sake of fitting the needs of point 2, I guess. Polaris (talk) 01:21, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Also good points, thank you. Yeah "Primate Spirit Garden" works too now that I think about it Gilde (talk) 02:19, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
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