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The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers Interview

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Revision as of 06:22, 28 March 2022 by SupremeExplosion (talk | contribs) (None of what was said in this long interview contradicts anything that ZUN previously in past statements. The links go to biased blog posts that bring up controversial events that aren't relevant to this interview.This warning is unneeded.)
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This is an excerpt from the book "The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers Volume 1" by John Szczepaniak, featuring in-depth interviews with people from the Japanese game industry.

The full 11800-word interview can be found in the book (Paperback & Kindle). The book was also available as part of StoryBundle's "Summer Video Games" DRM-free e-book bundle from June 24 to July 17, 2015 4:00 UTC.

Interview excerpt

Interview with ZUN - extract from The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers
By John Szczepaniak

Interview with ZUN, aka Junya Ota
25 October 2013, Tokyo

When I was first asked to interview ZUN, the challenge intrigued me. The doujin scene was something I definitely wanted to cover, given that it's even less well documented in English than mainstream Japanese games, and certainly ZUN is as iconic a doujin figure as any. However, he's also very difficult to get hold of. Fortuitously, I met him at Sony's Indie Stream event, when I was chatting with Yoshiro Kimura. We were discussing our planned interview when ZUN walks up, along with a collection of fans and well wishers - he and Mr Kimura had long been friends. After this Mr Kimura acted as my liaison, arranging our interview. I was to meet ZUN at the Shinjuku blood bank, where we would then retire to a coffee shop for refreshment and talk.

—John Szczepaniak, author of The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers


<we order beverages, coffee for myself and beer for ZUN>

JS: Maybe I should ask the last question first. Have you ever tried British real ale?
ZUN: <smiles> Yes, yes, I have!

JS: What do you think of it?
ZUN: I like real ale style beers. I think it's best suited for when it's cold in the winter. So I think it's maybe a winter ale. But in the summer, when it's hot, you've got to drink Japanese beer.

JS: What was the first game you played?
ZUN: Well, we used to have these game cafes in Japan, and there was Space Invaders, or classic games like that. I can't remember exactly which one was the first I played. But the ones where they had a table, and the game would be in the middle of the table.

JS: When did you want to create your own?
ZUN: It wasn't a matter of looking at a game and thinking, "I want to make something like that." I really played games my whole childhood, it was my main interest. When I came to university in Tokyo that's when I lived on my own, and that's when I had the opportunity and the time to start making games. In terms of when did I want to start making games, I think that desire has always been in me.

JS: What did you study at university?
ZUN: My major was mathematics.

JS: Did you teach yourself programming?
ZUN: Indeed. Making games was much more of an interest to me than programming, so yes, you have to learn programming to make games, so I taught myself that. In terms of how I did it, this wasn’t really the age of the internet in those days, so much. There was some stuff out there, but it was much more about trial and error, and reading, and so on.

JS: Which coding language did you start with?
ZUN: The first thing I learnt was C.

JS: Before Highly Responsive to Prayers, did you make any other games?
ZUN: I made a handful of games before the first Touhou, but I never released them. Some of them I showed to my friends, but they weren't official releases. The first game I ever made was a copy of Puyo Puyo. <laughs>

JS: Awesome. Do you still have this game?
ZUN: <laughs> I don't know if I still have the data! The computer I made that one on is gone, so I don't know.

JS: I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in seeing these pre-Touhou titles.
ZUN: I'm sure they would be. I don't know where the other games are. I'm sure if I hunted for them I might be able to find them, but...

JS: Well, keep an eye out.
ZUN: It’s very nostalgic, thinking about them.

JS: You started with a PC-98, but in 1996 it was on the way out, being replaced by Windows computers in Japan. Why start on PC-98?
ZUN: I honestly didn't really consider Windows computers when I made the first Touhou games. Windows didn't have things like DirectX back then. I just didn't see it as a platform for game development. The games that I knew had all been done on different systems. Some people owned a computer, like a PC-98 or an X68000, exclusively for games. Making them on the PC-98 seemed very logical and very natural to me.

JS: What was the first computer you owned? Was it a PC-88?
ZUN: No, it was the PC-98. That’s the very first computer I bought, and it’s the one I developed the Touhou games on.

JS: Do you still have this Touhou computer?
ZUN: I still have it, yes.

JS: Does it still work?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t know, and I’m not sure if I can remember how to use it. It was a long time ago.

JS: Old hardware slowly breaks down over time.
ZUN: Absolutely, and also floppy disks get mould on them, or fall apart.

JS: Someone showed me the original dev disks for Thunder Force, which went white with mould.[sic]
ZUN: It happens, that’s the way it is.

JS: Your first Touhou game, Highly Responsive to Prayers, had a Breakout feel to it, and then the formula changed for the second game. What motivated this?
ZUN: Obviously, danmaku as it exists now wasn’t really around back then, in 1996,153 and even before I made the first game, I did have an image in my head, of that being kind of what I wanted to make. It may not have been what the second game became, but that was the idea, and although I didn’t have the word danmaku to describe it, that sort of wall of bullets was definitely there. But I needed to practise as it were, I needed to learn how to produce that. So the first game was, really, a training exercise for me in a way. So I learned a lot about game production, engine development, through the creation of Highly Responsive to Prayers. Then from the second game onwards, that was when I made the game that was in my mind.

JS: Between each game in the Touhou series, do you re-use parts of the source code and engine?
ZUN: There's a break for the code, and it's when I switched to Windows development from the PC-98. So that was between Mystic Square in 1998 and The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil in 2002. Those two have no similar code, and it was completely from scratch again. But since then the mechanics, the very core engine, is the same. So I change it, and I improve it, but there is some code which I wrote in 2002 that still exists in recent Touhou entries as well.

JS: One of my favourites is Shoot the Bullet (below), with the photography mechanic. Ingenious! What inspired you?
ZUN: This goes back to the reason why I started making danmaku games. The shooting game genre was stagnating. The typical arcade shooting games had fallen into a pattern. I think Touhou as a series, and as an idea, is quite original. But obviously as the popularity grew, and the genre grew, a lot of Touhou style games were being made by a lot of different developers. As a result, standards for judging what makes a good danmaku game had evolved, which was more or less a good thing overall. And when you think about the standards for games like this, something that has to stand out for the games to be successful, is the way it looks. So I thought that the best way to show everybody what a game looks like is obviously to take photos, so to speak, and I thought if danmaku fans have an interest in images and the way things look, I should make a game where they can control that. So I created the “screenshot feature” if you will, because I thought that would be a very interesting way to interact with the fans in a way that I knew they were already interested in.
JS: As a journalist I take snapshots of games using a capture card, so this really resonated with me. Waiting for that perfect moment.
ZUN: It’s all about timing, which is fun.

JS: <passes over Retro Gamer> It only covers old games. I interviewed the director of Akumajou Dracula.
ZUN: Ahh, Castlevania! Which system?
JS: The Super Famicom.
ZUN: What do you define as retro gaming? In terms of time frame?
JS: Everyone debates it. I think we’ve reached a point where, because classic games are being re-released, and that older style of 2D is being used again, it’s less about old and new, and more about ethos. Today I can play new games in a style I’ve not seen for 20 years.
ZUN: No one knows what “retro” is exactly, do they? In Japan, too, they use terms like this one here, <points to author’s business card> “retro classic reporter”, but I’m not sure whether the stuff they talk about is truly “retro”.
JS: This magazine covers everything from the origin of games all the way up until around the Dreamcast. It’s the cut-off point at the moment.
ZUN: So it’s not to do with 3D or 2D?
JS: No. There were also 3D games in the 1980s. What are some of your favourite older games?
ZUN: <laughs> There's a huge amount of games that I really like from the old days, so this may get out of hand! It's very hard to choose. But I have an answer that I always give in this situation. Of course, it's Super Mario Bros. That's what I tell people, but really choosing my favourite game from that era is essentially impossible. I really can't do it.

ZUN's sketch of his room as of 2013

JS: Touhou’s popularity has exploded. Do you feel some fans take what Touhou means too far? Do you feel you might lose control over it?
ZUN: It’s not something I have a problem with. Generally speaking, there are a lot of fans out there who are very driven, and every interested in my series, but in terms of creative control, it’s not really something I am that worried about, or concerned by, to be honest. A lot of fans are very good at getting permission, or asking me, I’m going to do this or that, and that’s fine. There are plenty of things out there as well that I was never asked about, that were made using characters of mine, or whatever. But it’s not something that troubles me so much. At times I’ve thought that it would be terrible if I stopped liking games because of a fan-related issue. But that’s never happened. I have the freedom to make the games I want, and that’s enough.

JS: It’s a nice attitude to have. Some large companies have clamped down on fans.
ZUN: Well, it definitely can be a problem, and I can understand why companies do that, but it’s not how I deal with it.

JS: Fans create their own stories for characters – do you have a canonical story planned out? Do you conceive of it beforehand, or as you need it?
ZUN: In terms of development, whenever I start working on a new game one of the first things I do is decide what the story will be. I don’t do it at the same time as programming the game, I do it beforehand. In terms of taking influence from the fan stuff, I don’t really pay much attention to it. I don’t really read them or play them, so I don’t really think there’s much influence from the fans on the actual Touhou series. I make the stories I want to make, basically. I don’t incorporate ideas from the fan works, so they’re not really an influence on me.

JS: I know some fan creations tend to veer towards, shall we say, amorous themes between certain characters.
ZUN: It’s not something I particularly like, and sometimes it’s a bit too much. The fans are free to do what they want, but it’s not something I like. I have no plans to put something like that into one of my games. <laughs>

JS: You're a one-man creator, you create all the games in your house?
ZUN: Yes, I do it in my house.

JS: Can I have a layout sketch?
ZUN: Ah, OK! That's fine, sure. <laughs> Just my office?

JS: Sure, or the whole house, whatever you like.
ZUN: It really all happens in one room. There is a computer, some bookcases, a chair, and a fridge.

JS: What kind of games have you been into recently? Play anything interesting?
ZUN: Dragon’s Crown just came out. That’s a cool game, I’m enjoying that.

JS: Do you play many games from computer download services, such as GOG or Steam?
ZUN: I’m not a big FPS player, but just about any other genre I can get into. So I’ve been playing some Sim City, some Civilisation, that kind of stuff. In terms of digital distribution services, I think they’re great. I’m thinking about Touhou and those kinds of systems, and it’s something that maybe I’ll go into, in the future.

JS: There's a lot of characters in the Touhou series. One estimate I heard is there are over 150 characters. Is that true? The majority also appear to be cute girls.
ZUN: I don't know how many characters there in the series. <laughs> I've never counted. I'm fairly confident that the fans' counting of them on the internet is probably accurate. So, sure, 150 perhaps. In terms of why there are more girls in the series than men, that's definitely a conscious design decision that I made. I believe that the play style of danmaku games has a feminine aspect to it. It's not a toe-to-toe contest of strength; you don't simply run up and pummel the enemy.
JS: Right, in an action game with soldiers, or people carrying guns, the image is one of men.

ZUN: With danmaku, I'm trying to make games that are beautiful. The way the bullets move, the way the game is played, it's a visual spectacle, and I think it has beauty in it. When you think of beauty as a general thing, you tend to think of women rather than men, so it's more a case of... I think danmaku and the games I create are more about aesthetics than they are about action. Although they feature bullets, they're not about guns. Something that I think maybe people assume, is that I put a lot of girls in because it's what my fans want, but that's not the case. That has nothing to do with it. I think that putting in characters absolutely has an effect on the gameplay and on the game's design. They're not arbitrary at all, they're part of the design of the game.
JS: A very eloquent answer.

ZUN: Yes, it’s definitely to do with that, and I certainly think it’s okay to feature both male and female characters in games, but I do feel like if I put a lot of male characters in the game, it will make the game seem like a more aggressive, toe-to-toe contest. Also, something that I think maybe people assume, is that I put a lot of girls in because it’s what my fans want, but that’s not the case. That has nothing to do with it.

JS: I know from planning the book’s cover, there seems to be a growing aversion to the feminine form. It’s an excellent policy to focus on your own vision. Many creators today are worried about trying to appeal to everyone, and companies have focus groups to increase sales.
ZUN: I definitely think that is an issue, although I would say if they do it well, I don’t really have a problem with it. But I can see where you’re coming from with that. I would say that in terms of Touhou, one of the things that I’m doing, and one of things I’m aware of, is I try to invent or use characters that I believe link to the style of the level.

JS: So a tricky level might have a mysterious looking character, compared to an easy level where a character would appear friendly?
ZUN: I think that putting in characters – certainly in terms of Touhou – it’s not just to sell titles or to appeal, I think it absolutely has an effect on the gameplay and on the game’s design. They’re not arbitrary at all, they’re part of the design of the game.

JS: I think fans notice. Something which is scary to hear in the West is, “Oh yeah, we went to a focus group to make decisions for us.” Which then dilutes the vision of the creator.
ZUN: I think most companies in Japan do it as well. For example, a company might look at Touhou and think, “That’s pretty successful, so let’s stick a load of pretty girls in our game, it’s bound to work.” That kind of thinking is pervasive now, but it’s an attitude that doesn’t come from the actual game developers.

JS: I wanted to ask about Comiket. Can you describe your memories of it?
ZUN: The reason I chose Comiket is because, as a one-man development team, it was the only way that I knew of which would give me the opportunity to sell my games. I wasn't comparing it to anything. Also now, through [online] services you can upload games to be downloaded at any gigabyte size. But back when I was making the original Touhou stuff, people could not get hold of games that were so big. So it had to be physical distribution. It had to be hand to hand. When I thought about what kind of environment I can do that in, Comiket was the only one that I knew about. Even now, Comiket is the only place I can really think of where I can distribute physical copies, with actual game packaging. I get enjoyment from handing the product over to the customer, and seeing them face to face. It's part of what I enjoy with this whole process. So I think even if I do go digital, I will always do boxed distribution as well.

JS: Can you remember the first time you sold something at Comiket? Do you have photos?
ZUN: <laughs> The first time was 1997, and I do remember it, since it was obviously the first one for me, and it was a big deal. I would say one thing that definitely struck me... I took about 30 copies of the first Touhou game, and 50 copies of the second, so about 80 copies together, to sell. And I really thought to myself, there's no way I'm going to sell these, no one is going to be interested. But I sold them all, and I sold them rather quickly.

JS: Did you number each copy?
ZUN: <laughs> I did not, no.
JS: I wonder where those first copies are…
ZUN: I don’t know where they all are, obviously, but I assume the people who bought them still have them. Some of them went on to become my friends, so I have friends who still have my original 1997 Comiket games, somewhere. One thing is that the people who really like these kind of doujin games, it’s the same people each year. So the fans I was selling to in 1997 and 1998, it’s still the same people who like the games today, they’ve just gotten a little bit older. Both the people who make doujin games and those who buy them, it’s often the same people each year. It’s like a community.

JS: These first few games, they were on PC-98 floppy disks? They’ve got a limited memory size; did you have to omit content to make them fit?
ZUN: If you look at it now, it’s hard to imagine fitting a game into that size of space. But to be honest with you, the games weren’t really that memory intensive. I think, generally, I got everything I wanted on to each disk, each time.

JS: Some developers put long cinemas in early computer games. In one instance I recall the opening took up two disks needing switching!
ZUN: You don’t need those movies. <laughs>

JS: Did you attend Comiket before you started selling games?
ZUN: No, I did not. The first time I ever went to Comiket was to start selling the Touhou series.

JS: There’s nothing quite like Comiket outside of Japan. I know there’s many conventions outside Japan, such as PAX and so on, but the enormous scale of Comiket, its long-running history, and the diverse nature of its homegrown products, makes it unmatched. For me it has this mysterious allure. Has it changed over the years?
ZUN: I think the fundamental, underlying idea and the design of Comiket has not really changed much. I would say the scale has gotten bigger, in terms of fans attending and also vendors. In addition, the number of foreign people who visit is going up. I think it's become more open. But I think that the concept of Comiket has remained more or less the same since I started going in 1997. Back when Comiket was a more underground phenomenon, doujin material was more likely to be considered questionable in terms of copyright and legality. People would make doujin stuff, and while it wasn't exactly illegal, it existed in a sort of grey area of copyright. So Comiket used to have a more secretive, underground kind of feel. But now Comiket is much more open, and people don't worry about that as much.

JS: Is this because illegal content was banned?
ZUN: No, it’s because it’s NOT banned, so doujin creators don’t have to be… [so secretive and cautious anymore]. Now that doujin games are an established genre, there's a lot of original content, so that's not a problem. In fact, I think that doujin game creators can afford to be a little more bold. Hmm... How should I put this? Obviously illegal content should not be distributed, but I don't think there are enough "secondary games" in the doujin game world. It's a delicate issue.

A word from expert Matt Fitsko

When Comiket began in the 1970s, the attendees were overwhelmingly women buying and selling secondary manga works as well as original creations (including quite a bit of yaoi, or Boy's Love). Perhaps this shouldn't be so surprising, given that women have always played a leading role in fanfiction communities in the West too. When it comes to risqué content, women invented "slash fiction" pretty much single-handedly. Contrary to popular conceptions, even today the majority of doujin creators selling work at Comiket are women, around 60% as of Comiket #84 (summer 2013). Historically speaking, female doujin creators at Comiket have generally outnumbered their male counterparts by more than 2:1. The demographics likely skew towards men for doujin games and software in particular, but it's important to note that a huge chunk of overall doujin output, even the really hardcore stuff, is actually created and consumed by women.

Comiket is much more open now, and doujin circles are much less afraid of falling afoul of copyright law, so there's more secondary work than ever. Some people on the commercial side of things are openly embracing the doujin community. For example, there's the manga artist and former doujin Ken Akamatsu, who designed a special "doujin-allowed" watermark for commercial artists to print on their works, similar to the Creative Commons license. For manga with this mark, doujin circles are free to create any secondary works they want, for free or for sale, without fear of reprisal from the copyright owner.

ZUN remarks that there aren't many secondary doujin games, which is certainly true compared to the plentiful secondary doujinshi (magazines and comics). Perhaps it's because companies like Nintendo are so trigger-happy with C&D letters when it comes to fan-made games. The two Chrono Trigger fan games that were shuttered are famous examples in the West, but this has happened within Japan, too. EG: There was a Power Stone-esque Haruhi Suzumiya doujin game. It wasn't pornographic, but for some reason Kadokawa shut it down. Touhou has by far the single largest collection of secondary doujin games. Touhou is unique in that whereas most secondary doujin works are based off a mainstream commercial property, such as a popular anime, with Touhou the original work is itself doujin. Touhou has flourished because of ZUN's lenient attitude towards derivative material based on his work. As he indicates, he would like to see more secondary doujin games based on commercial works.

JS: I came to Japan last time in 2001. I’ve noticed an increase in mobile phone gaming, which is changing the industry. Does this concern you? Would you put Touhou on phones?
ZUN: I think it will continue going into the future. I myself play a lot of games on mobile phones. The problem I think with smartphones is a lot of games get ported straight over, and they get ported from a system where there are actual controls – like a physical controller, or built-in to the machine. On a smartphone these can be quite irritating to play, and I think it can have a negative impact on the game. I think Touhou is definitely a game that needs a controller, or would be difficult to play on the screen alone. If I ever come up with a fun game idea that’s suited to a smartphone, something that couldn’t be done except on a smartphone, then I might make a smartphone game.

JS: Would your fans be upset?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t think they’d get upset at all. If I come up with an idea, maybe I’ll do it.

JS: Hypothetical situation: Microsoft comes to you with a generous contract to make a Kinect-only Touhou game. What do you say?
ZUN: <laughs> If that happened, it would not be a Touhou game as any of us know it. I think trying to force a game like Touhou on to a Kinect system would make a really, really bad game, and it would not be fun. <laughs> If I could think of something that I think would work well with the Kinect, and was designed specifically for the Kinect, then yes. If I could think of a good concept, I might do it.

JS: Microsoft insisted the next Steel Battalion should use Kinect, and it was universally regarded as unplayable.
ZUN: Absolutely. I think the best thing to do is to take the game idea first, and then make or find the right controller for that. Not to look at the controller or system, and then try to force a game to work with that controller. That’s why I think arcade games are excellent. Because every single idea has the possibility of a custom controller for it, and it’s exactly what it needs – nothing more, nothing less.

JS: Do you consider your audience outside Japan, when making Touhou games? To what extent do you interact with fans outside Japan?
ZUN: Well, to be honest with you, I don’t really communicate with my Japanese fans, so of course I don’t really communicate with my foreign fans either. In September [2013] I went to an event in Atlanta, in America, I sort of made an appearance. I was shocked at how many Touhou fans there are in America. I couldn’t believe it! [As for creating a Touhou game aimed at a Western audience], it’s not something I’ve ever considered.

JS: You’re a tricky man to get hold of. I only managed through Mr Kimura. How did you first meet and become friends with him?
ZUN: I met him last year. Kimura-san does a sort of broadcast, a live broadcast on Ustream, called Poripori Club, where he talks about games and has guest speakers. And he invited me along, and that’s how we got to know each other, and now I do it sometimes too. We became friends through that. We’ve never worked together on a title, or anything like that, though.

JS: Have you considered working alongside Mr Kimura on a game?
ZUN: It’s possible but unlikely. I like to keep my business partners and my friends separate.

JS: When business is involved, friendships can go up in flames.
ZUN: <laughs> If I worked with my friends, we’d probably just get into arguments.

JS: You worked at Taito for a while?
ZUN: That’s right. For about 10 years, yes.
JS: For 10 years?
ZUN: At Taito, yes. From 1998 until around 2008 or 2007.
JS: There’s little info online regarding that.
ZUN: There’s not much in Japanese either! <laughs>
JS: Are you happy to talk about it?
ZUN: Yes, it’s fine.
JS: Perhaps you can solve a mystery for me.
ZUN: A mystery! <laughs>

JS: In the early 1990s Taito was working with a company called WoWoW, to develop the Taito WoWoW game system. It was a CD-based console, meant to have online capabilities and play arcade perfect ports. It was shown at trade shows, but never released…
ZUN: <cuts in>… I don’t think it was something I was involved with at all I’m afraid. <laughs>

JS: But did anyone at Taito ever talk about it?
ZUN: It was cancelled before I joined Taito, so unfortunately it wasn’t really something people were talking about when I was there. I’m afraid I really don’t know anything about it.

JS: I thought perhaps a colleague lamented: “I worked on a machine, but it never came out!”
ZUN: There was this one machine that Taito released. It was a console that worked as a home karaoke machine, but it also had games. It was basically a game console. It was a game console that you could also use as a karaoke machine. The Taito X-55.155 It was meant to be a karaoke machine, but games got released for it. But it barely sold any units. <laughs>
JS: Now Taito’s been absorbed by Square-Enix.
ZUN: Well, they still exist. They’re a child company of Square-Enix, but they are still around in a sense. They’re not developing games anymore. They predominantly work in the field of game centres in Japan.

JS: The way I understand it, Taito was your day job to pay the bills, whereas Team Shanghai Alice was the way you expressed yourself?
ZUN: That’s exactly how I felt as well.
JS: Where were you before Taito? Studying?
ZUN: I was at university. I went straight from university and did job hunting, and the first place I went was Taito. I joined as a programmer.

JS: Can you recall the process of joining?
ZUN: I went to a setsumeikai; it was like an explanatory meeting. That time, in 1998, when I was looking for work, it was called the “ice age of job hunting” in Japan. It was a really rough time, so you would go to every interview you could, you would attend everything. Getting that offer from Taito was a relief for me, and that’s why I took it immediately. <laughs> At the Taito setsumeikai I went to, there was about 10'000 applicants who went, from lots of different universities. They hired five people. That’s the kind of ratio. It was a tough time to be looking for work.
JS: That’s almost like winning a small lottery.
ZUN: Actually, the reason I got my placement was because I’d already made some games while at university. I just showed them the games I had made, and was hired immediately. Thinking about it now, the Touhou games I made while in university were only profitable in that they helped me get a job. <laughs> I didn’t make them specifically to get a job, but they opened many doors for me.

JS: Did Taito know that you continued to make doujin games? Did they approve of it? Is that why you developed under a pseudonym?
ZUN: When I first started I did hide it. There were some co-workers of mine who were making doujin games as well. Taito [had] a rule that you were not really supposed to do it. But I think the people who did it, just did it anyway. But that's not the reason I left Taito at all. It was unrelated, just to make that clear. <laughs> Taito didn't forbid me to work on Touhou. In fact, they asked me if I would be willing to release Touhou as a regular arcade game, under Taito's brand. I flat-out refused. "NO!" <laughs> But even after that, they didn't explicitly say that I couldn't produce doujin games. We weren't really supposed to work on personal projects, but most people at the company looked the other way. The other thing to consider is, from Taito’s perspective, those of us making doujin games on the side, it was really good practise for us. It helped us to improve at our jobs.

JS: It’s interesting they wanted to put their name on it. They would own the property.
ZUN: Absolutely. I feel that, not only could they then control it, but also I would lose my autonomy. I didn’t like that. Hypothetically, if that had happened, and Taito had gotten hold of the Touhou name, I’d probably have worked on whatever game I agreed to do it with, but that would have been the end of Touhou from me. I like making games where I am in control. I don’t want to be beholden to someone.

JS: Could you sketch a layout of Taito’s office?
ZUN: <laughs> Taito kept redesigning its layout. So it might be a bit difficult. I don’t know if I can remember them all.
JS: Maybe your favourite layout? Or the oldest?
ZUN: If you can think of a Taito game that you would like the office layout for, I might be able to do that.

JS: Can you recall the first game you worked on?
ZUN: The first game was for the PS2… It was Greatest Striker, a soccer game.
JS: But if you joined in 1998…
ZUN: The game came out in early 2000, immediately after the release of the PS2, so the development period was prior to that. The PS2 devkits were already available in 1998.156 I was assigned to work on initial research into the system. I did that for a long time, exploring what could be achieved with the PS2.
JS: Benchmarking the hardware?
ZUN: That’s right. I wrote software libraries for Taito to use in PS2 game development.

ZUN: There is a computer, some bookcases, a chair, and a fridge.
JS: What's in the fridge?
ZUN: Beer! <laughs> It's my beer fridge.

JS: Any particular brand?
ZUN: At the moment, I'm really into premium malts. It changes from time to time, but right now it's premium malts. There's a lot of bookshelves, and it's mostly things to do with programming, games, stuff like that. There's two computers and two screens. I have one computer for development, and one computer for debugging. I have a musical keyboard here for making game music... and that's it. It's just a 6 tatami mat room. That's Kantouma mats, which are different from the size of the mats in Kyoto. Anyway... 6 tatami mats.

JS: How long does it take to make a game?
ZUN: It takes about 4 months to go from original planning and deciding to start, to finishing.

JS: How has your development process changed from when you first started?
ZUN: My method, my approach, hasn’t really changed. I think the only thing that’s really changed is that I do it in a nicer place now. <laughs>

JS: How about the Taito offices?
ZUN: The Taito offices are not so interesting – are you sure you want them? They’re literally just an office.
JS: Well, that in itself is interesting.
ZUN: OK, I’ll draw the office layout for Graffiti Kingdom.

JS: You worked on the soccer game for PS2, Magic Pengel, Bujingai, Graffiti Kingdom, and Exit. Are those the only games from Taito?
ZUN: That’s right, I worked on those games. And then after we did Exit I also worked on a bunch of different games, which I don’t really recall. Some of them for PS3, some of them for the Wii, but none of them got released.

JS: Did that happen a lot at Taito?
ZUN: Hm, for the most part. It happened a lot.
JS: Tell me more! If a game is unreleased, the words you say now could be the only record.
ZUN: Eh… There are a lot of things that I can’t tell you. For various reasons. <nervous laughter> Bujingai 2 was in development and looked really good, but never got released. <nervous laughter> So that game existed…

JS: I bought Bujingai (right) the other day, in Akihabara.
ZUN: Was it released in the West?
JS: Yes. It was released in America and Europe.
ZUN: Actually, I worked on the localisation a little bit! I helped with the process of allowing fonts and sizing, and so on.
JS: 505 Street Games was the publisher in Europe. It’s a small Italian company. They would bring over unusual Japanese games and release them in miniscule quantities.
ZUN: <laughs>
JS: I have no idea how they made money.
ZUN: I see, indeed. <slightly melancholy> We worked really hard on them… <hands over Taito office sketch> Is it OK if it just looks a bit like this? I’ve written in Japanese. This is the server room. These are the titles of the games being worked on in different places around the office.
JS: I know some people imported Bujingai direct from Japan, to get it earlier.
ZUN: Honestly though, it wasn’t that great a game, I think. <laughs> I think the sequel was going to be better! It’s a shame.
JS: What can you tell us about Bujingai 2? Can you draw some sketches showing it?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t think I can tell you very much about it! I don’t want to get in trouble. But I think the people who were working on it, were really enthusiastic about it. They were making it sillier and more tongue-in-cheek than the original.
JS: If you had to guess a number, how many unreleased games have you seen?
ZUN: <long pause> I can think of about six titles that were in development, or had work done on them, that never got released.
JS: If you ever want to talk about these games – you’ve got my email address.
ZUN: <laughs> It hasn’t yet been 10 years since I left Taito. If Taito ever does get shut down, then it’s open season. Until then, it’s a little difficult.

JS: Have you ever started a Touhou game and didn’t finish it? Are there unreleased Touhou?
ZUN: Because I’m making them on my own, obviously I’m not really beholden to other people. So the only time it happens is when I play it and then I go, “Oh, this isn’t much fun.” So I’ve had games in the series, or I’ve had times, where I’ve gone back and made changes. That happens and it’s a process of improvement. I don’t think I’ve ever cancelled a Touhou game. Every Touhou game that I’ve set out to make has been released or come out. In terms of story there are some parts that I was developing into games, and then I thought, “Ah, this part of the story is boring. I’m not going to put it in.” So the story of Touhou as a whole series, it’s not exactly complete. It has an overarching story, but there are some parts that are not in any game.

JS: Were there any new mechanics in a Touhou game which you experimented with, but were scrapped? Could you describe these mechanics?
ZUN: Yes, absolutely. There have been some things that I wanted to put in. One was something which I named the "net gallery" - and the idea was to have a system where, when you were playing, you were connected to the internet and then other players could watch you play. It would also have a very basic messaging system, so that if you got hit the viewers could send a message saying "unlucky" or something. I was thinking about that back in, maybe 2005 or so? There are games that have that functionality now, but I think I was considering it a few years ago. It did not happen in the end, but it was something I thought could be interesting.

JS: I’m picturing something like NicoNico Douga, where messages stream across the screen.
ZUN: Actually, the reason I didn’t do it, is because while I was thinking about it and working on the game, that’s when the age of online streaming or online video began, and I saw NicoNico and thought, “Well, this is fine. I don’t need to do it.” Why bother putting it in the game when someone already provides the service? I guess the necessity disappeared so I didn’t do it. <laughs>
JS: This interview will say you had the idea first.
ZUN: I don’t know. I think maybe quite a lot of people were working on that process at once, and maybe it’s just that NicoNico were the fastest in Japan. Certainly I was thinking about doing it for my game, but I had never thought of the concept of having a website where loads of different games could be streamed. So maybe I was not the first. It was an idea of mine that didn’t come to fruition.
The reason I thought about doing that was because… If you ever go to an arcade in Japan, and you see there’s a really good player on a shooting game, someone really skilled, they will have a crowd of people watching them. And I thought the people in Japan who would go to watch skilled players, they must have the internet now. So I’m sure they’d want to do it online as well. I thought there would be people interested in this.
JS: Indeed, superplay DVDs are very popular. They have footage of an extremely skilled player going through a game showcasing this skill.
ZUN: Yes, they are popular. It’s definitely evidence that people like watching excellent players. From my experience with the chat messages on NicoNico and so on, I think one thing that people really love is watching live streams, because they get a chance to see even the expert players mess up. <laughs>
JS: Do you consider yourself doujin or indie? Is there a difference?
ZUN: I'm getting asked that a lot recently. I would say that indies, the indie boom if you will, came from the West. A few years ago, I started hearing stories about how popular indie games were becoming in the West. And I thought to myself that the content of indie and doujin games is quite similar. Doujin encompasses a lot of non-commercial activity, whereas I believe that indies need to succeed.

A word from expert Matt Fitsko

The line between indie and doujin is blurring in Japan, but there's still a recognizable distinction between indie games ('インディーズ'), which are treated as a relatively new phenomenon mostly occurring in the West, and the traditional doujin scene, which has been continuously churning behind the scenes since the 1970s. Indies are seen as an exciting new commercial phenomenon, a reaction to overstuffed AAA game development, and a harkening back to small and medium-sized development studios that have been disappearing for the last decade. This manner of thinking leads Inafune to say that the original Mega Man games were essentially "indie" games, for example. They were created in a small-scale, creativity-first development environment that rarely exists today. On the other hand, doujin suggests a truly amateur style of creative activity (in the literal sense of amateur; "for the love of the art"), one that is closer to the label "fandom" in English. Doujin material is sold among fans, but in tiny quantities, and rarely in the expectation of actual profit (according to a 2010 report, only around 10% of doujin creators make over 20'000 yen (~$2'000) in profit by selling goods at Comiket, while about 70% actually lose money). Success and recognition is not really a factor, and the doujin games that have broken out to mainstream success (Higurashi, Corpse Party, Yatagarasu) are the rarest exceptions.

JS: Would you continue making Touhou games if nobody bought the next one?
ZUN: Well, it would certainly be depressing if nobody bought my games! On the other hand, I believe that if I make something good, it will sell. You could say that I’ve become more like an indie developer as opposed to a doujin developer. Among doujin creators at Comiket, even those who have released commercial products like an indie developer, I think many of them aren’t necessarily concerned with being successful.

JS: Until what time are you free?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t mind, I really don’t mind.
JS: I think this is great content we’re covering.
ZUN: <laughs> As long as there’s beer, I can answer questions all night.

JS: Which Touhou game sold the most?
ZUN: The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, in 2002, was the most sold. I like to bring back old characters in the new games, so there’s a loop with the character appearances. Often, when I make a new game, the old ones sell a little bit more, so they have an advantage.

JS: Which do you feel is most popular with fans?
ZUN: That’s difficult… I think Perfect Cherry Blossom, 2003 (right), might be the most. And also Mountain of Faith, from 2007 was also quite popular. Also, the one I released this year, the most recent one, [Double Dealing Character, 2013], was also very popular. So maybe those three. You’ll have to check the English name.

JS: I love the English titles to your games. Do you choose them by yourself?
ZUN: That's right, I do. But generally speaking it's not the same as the kanji, for the title. I look at the story and then I try to find words which link to the story.
JS: I was interviewing the creator of the arcade game Strider, who said he liked names which didn’t make sense. I asked if he had any suggestions for the name of my book. If you have any ideas, please suggest them.
ZUN: Are you going to release it in Japanese and in English?
JS: Just English at the moment. The current title is a little dry.
ZUN: I don’t have any ideas, but I’ll think about! <laughs>

JS: Your titles in English are very poetic.
ZUN: <laughs – waves hand as if to decline> They’re original, but I think the reason is because I cannot do English, so I don’t know how good they are.

JS: As a native English speaker… <notices second signature book> There’s two books…
ZUN: Can I write a different thing in each one?
JS: Oh, sure. Anything you like… As a native English speaker, for me the titles resonate with a kind of poetry.
ZUN: <laughs> I really didn’t think about them too hard! The way I choose them, it’s the same with both the Japanese and the English. I choose words that sound nice when you say them aloud.
JS: It’s a system that works.
ZUN: <laughs> Thank you very much. I’ve always wondered.

JS: I think it’s preferable to Hideo Kojima, who just invents words which make no sense. REVENGEANCE!
ZUN: <perplexed> He does that on purpose?
JS: Kojima is really popular, so he can get away with whatever he wants.
ZUN: That must be nice.

JS: Do you own a PS3 or Xbox 360?
ZUN: Yes, I have a Wii, a WiiU, a 360 and a PS3.

JS: Are you going to buy the new ones?
ZUN: I probably will. But I don't even know if the Xbox One is going to come Japan. It does not seem so popular. But I'll probably buy a PS4.

JS: It might be the reverse situation with the Xbox One. Where Japanese fans have to import a machine, similar to how Europeans imported the PC Engine and so on, back in the day.
ZUN: The PC Engine didn't come out abroad?

JS: It came out in America, as the TG-16, and there was a tiny amount sold in PAL territories.
ZUN: And the PC-FX?

JS: It wasn't sold outside Japan at all.
ZUN: It didn't sell inside of Japan!

<everyone laughs intensely>

JS: How do you feel about foreign fans creating patches to translate your games into English?
ZUN: I don't have a problem with it at all. Obviously, since I can't speak English, I can't make the games in English. It's great, it lets more people play the games. I'm very grateful.

JS: Are you worried about the quality?
ZUN: I can’t tell but I think that, actually, the people who are willing to put in the time and effort to translate it, would do their best. It shows a lot of dedication.

JS: If a Western publisher of Japanese PC games approached you to officially translate and publish outside Japan, what would you say?
ZUN: I think if I was approached by something like that, obviously I’d think about it. I’d feel like it would probably be a bit of a bother, and I honestly think I’d probably get sick of the whole process rather quickly. I think it would probably just be a hassle. I would say though, that in terms of would I rather have fan-translations, or a company translate it, I think because Touhou has such a dedicated fan-base, I feel like the fan translations are going to be better than a professional one. I think some of the content of Touhou’s stories and so on, it might be quite difficult even for Japanese speakers to understand, so I feel like, even if it’s translated directly, it won’t make any sense to a lot of people. So I feel like it’s not… I’ve been thinking, I might just sell it in the West, in Japanese. I don’t think it’s necessary to speak Japanese to be able to enjoy the game, the artwork, the playing, and so on. Translating stuff takes a long time and can be very difficult.

JS: It’s interesting mentioning the difficulty of dealing with Western publishers. Because Treasure was tweeting about the immense difficulty of bringing Ikaruga to the West.
ZUN: It seems like there’s not much to translate for Ikaruga…
JS: It wasn’t the translation, but things like the contract with Steam.
ZUN: Treasure are not doujin, but it’s definitely something I think a lot of doujin developers feel. I think most doujin developers would like to release their games on Steam if they could.

JS: Do you have any advice for someone who wants to make doujin or indie games?
ZUN: My advice for people who want to make games, doujin in particular, is make them. Don’t worry about it, just make them. Just do it. That’s all the advice I can honestly give. You’ve just got to make them. I think it’s getting easier and easier as well, for people to make games on their own. Because the technology you have available, and the documentation you have available for free, is leagues ahead of what was available in the past. I think the support and the network is there.

JS: There’s also tools like GameMaker.
ZUN: I think when it comes to developing your own games, there’s not really anything you have to avoid. As long as you do whatever you want for your development. I think after you’ve made the game, learning about what to do next, that is something you should do. But I think you should make the game first, and then when it comes to the release aspect, and publishing, that’s when you need to read up. In terms of making the game, just do it.

JS: Do you want to comment on leaving Taito?
ZUN: First of all, I no longer had a real need to stay at Taito, thanks to Touhou. I decided that I would quit after the completion of the games I was currently working on at Taito. One of those games was for the PS3, I worked on it for over a year and then it was just cancelled. That was kind of a blow. And then the next one was meant to be for the WiiU. I was already thinking about quitting at that point, but for the WiiU title, one of my colleagues working under my supervision had proposed the game design, and it was the first time a game proposal by that person had ever been accepted. So I decided I would continue on for my colleague, and then bail out as soon as the game was completed. But ultimately that game was cancelled too, and I realized there was no longer any reason for me tostay at the company.

JS: You became disenchanted?
ZUN: Yes, I was not enjoying it in the end. For the last two years nothing I was working on was getting released. I wasn’t moving up the company. I thought to myself, this just isn’t any fun anymore.

JS: Can you say the name of the PS3 game?
ZUN: No, I cannot tell you that! <laughs>

JS: You said Touhou has become popular. There’s even conventions dedicated to it. You’ve seen it grow over the last 17 years. It must almost be like a watching a child grow up…
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t consider it so much my child, I consider it my life’s work. Obviously I’m overjoyed. To have the thing that you base your life around be this successful is wonderful. It’s a fantastic feeling. I’m very happy that the fans get so much joy from it.

JS: <noticing name on ZUN’s business card> After leaving Taito you formed Korindo?
ZUN: Yes, that’s right. It’s just me, my company.
JS: Like Shanghai Alice?
ZUN: I had to form a company, because if you don’t it’s hard to keep selling things in Japan. <laughs> So I created Korindo. Shanghai Alice is more like a brand, it’s not a company. Shanghai Alice is what I do, but Korindo facilitates that, it’s the name I put it under.

JS: You have to deal with taxes and logistics?
ZUN: Yes, taxes have been a problem in the past.

JS: Have you ever felt the urge to work in genres other than shooting games? Perhaps RPGs? You’ve collaborated on other projects.
ZUN: Are you asking would I like to do that? Yes, absolutely, of course I would. I think everybody would. But, honestly, I want to make danmaku shooting games even more. That’s what I love. I want to try lots of things, but one of them will always be shooting games.

JS: I believe you got married in 2012?
ZUN: Yes, I got married.
JS: To another programmer?
ZUN: Yes, she’s a game programmer, at a games company.

JS: Do you discuss programming techniques?
ZUN: We don’t really talk about Touhou, but we do talk about programming. The area of games she programs is unrelated. They’re smartphone games.

JS: Perhaps she could give some advice on bringing your games to smartphones?
ZUN: <laughs> Yes, maybe! But I’ll still do it on my own, because you keep your friends separate from your co-workers.
<everyone laughs>
JS: Exactly! If you could have made any game which was made by someone else, what would it be? You can’t say Super Mario Bros.
ZUN: There’s a whole bunch. <laughs> It’s difficult. I think if I give a specific answer, I’ll change my mind later. To be absolutely honest with you, whenever I play a game that’s really fun, I have that feeling. <with strong emotion> Every time I play a game that I enjoy I always have this feeling of, “I wish I’d thought of that!” So every game I enjoy, I guess is the answer.

JS: The book is coming out the middle of next year. So technically this question will be out of date. But do you have ideas for the next Touhou?
ZUN: I actually just finished the last game. So I really don’t know what I’m doing for the next one yet. It came out in August, so only a few weeks ago.

JS: How long a break do you usually take between each title?
ZUN: I take regular breaks. It takes me about four months to produce the game, which means the other eight months of the year are… I don’t know if you could call them a holiday, but the pace I go at is about one title a year. Obviously I use that time, I’m not just relaxing. I really do spend a lot of time thinking and making preliminary designs for the next title. That process is always ongoing.

JS: According to this list in English, there was no game released in 2006… Shoot the Bullet (2005); Mountain of Faith (2007).
ZUN: Indeed. Well, it was a time obviously when I was still working at Taito, so my time was less my own. I had to balance Touhou development with my job. The other thing is, you’ll notice sometimes there are certain years where I did two, and some years where I only did one. It’s because it was unpredictable for me in terms of how much time and energy I would have to spend on the games. So there’s no real reason 2006 didn’t have a game. It’s just the way it happened. I guess you could say, although I can’t remember why, I guess 2006 was a particularly busy year for me at Taito, and as a result Touhou had to be sort of put on the backburner for a while.

JS: Something I ask every interviewee about is pseudonyms, or nicknames. Tell me about ZUN.
ZUN: In terms of why I don't use my real name, it's a cultural thing. In doujin culture, I think most developers do the same. That's why I chose to use a pseudonym. In terms of why I chose ZUN, well my real name is Junya, and ZUN sounds like the Jun part.

JS: A lot of people outside Japan use their three initials. Am I correct that in Japan no-one has a middle name, so you have to get creative?
ZUN: There are also a lot of people who just put a full stop in the middle of the two letters.

JS: We’ve spoken about your games. But it’s more than that. A lot of people love the music. Tell me about that, since I believe you have no formal training in music?
ZUN: Originally I belonged to the concert band, or orchestra club, while in school. The ultimate reason why I created Touhou is because I wanted to make game music at first. I was more interested in making music for games rather than the games themselves. So I made all this music, and I thought great, I’ll find someone’s game and put it in. But I didn’t know anybody who was actually making games. So the next thing I thought was, right, I better make a game for this music to be used in.

JS: I’ve never heard this before… Touhou was born from your desire to create a game that matched the music you had already made?
ZUN: Yes, to start with, that’s right. The reason that there’s no releases between 1998 and 2002, that’s when I started at Taito… When I decided I wanted to do doujin at that point, I was actually planning to make a doujin music group. The name of the group, Shanhai Arisu Gengakudan or “Shanghai Alice Ensemble”, actually has a musical theme. So about 6 months to a year prior to this [around 2001], I applied to Comiket as a music circle, and I got rejected! So I thought to myself, I guess I gotta make another game… <laughs> Even now when I make the games, I consider the programming of them as my job. Whereas I consider making the music for them, making music in general, to be my hobby.

JS: Is Touhou now your sole work, or business?
ZUN: Yes, absolutely, Touhou is my life’s work. It doesn’t really matter if I did a different job, people are always going to think about Touhou, or think maybe it’s related to Touhou. I actually make my own beer, and some of the fans call it Touhou beer. I actually do some reviews of alcohol, beer reviews and so on, for a magazine.

JS: In Comptiq?
ZUN: That’s right. I think my fans, even if they have no interest in alcohol, they’ll still buy the magazine because it’s by the creator of Touhou.

JS: Regarding other shmups, what do you like?
ZUN: I guess I mainly like… Well, they’re all fairly old games.
JS: That’s great.
ZUN: My number favourite would be… Darius Gaiden.

JS: Sakana no boss! (fish bosses!)
ZUN: <laughs> Yes, I really like those. I think my favourite shooting games are all from the 1980s and 1990s.
JS: Ironically, that’s before danmaku.
ZUN: I think danmaku took off with Battle Garegga, from around 1996? Which is around the same time I was doing it. Anything before then may have some elements, but it’s not a danmaku title I feel. It’s roundabout the same time Touhou started, so it was really at the dawn of the genre.
JS: CAVE was also influential on the genre.
ZUN: I really liked Pro Gear no Arashi by Cave. I love that game.

JS: I must make time to play it. Could you fill in this form, for sending out complimentary copies? Would you prefer your real name, or pseudonym. ZUN: You’ll write the kanji with English underneath?
JS: Yes. I could put both your name and ZUN.
ZUN: I think just ZUN would be good. There are probably some fans out there who might not recognise my real name.

JS: I believe you make a guest appearance in Touhou Soccer Moushuuden at the end?
ZUN: <laughs> I’ve never seen that. Am I a character in the game?
JS: Apparently, you appear at the end announcing the next tournament. Have you played any of the fan games?
ZUN: I’ve played a handful, but obviously I’d be rather busy if I played them all.

JS: What kind of challenges did you encounter when shifting from PC-98 to Windows?
ZUN: Obviously changing across was difficult, in general. But now that I look back, the PC-98 was a massive headache to work with. DirectX is amazing, and it will do whatever you tell it to. It makes worrying about hardware not so important anymore. I guess the hardest thing dealing with Windows is that there’s no standardised hardware. Everyone is using different variations. It’s frustrating when certain players can’t enjoy the new game because the hardware requirements don’t quite match.
JS: According to the Touhou Wiki pages, your name is related to Taito's Zuntata? Is that true?
ZUN: No, there's no connection. The Wiki page is wrong.

JS: Yes, they are often wrong.
ZUN: <laughs>

JS: One of my motivations with this book is to correct misinformation. There’s a lot of mistranslation, or missing information.
ZUN: Definitely. I think it’s something that happens a lot, and it can be a problem.
JS: One of the strangest things I’ve seen, is I’ll write an article, then a Wikipedia editor will use the article as a reference for something which isn’t related. And I think: “I didn’t imply that!”
ZUN: It happens in Japan a lot too. <finishes writing address> I’m not sure if it will get delivered or not.
JS: If it doesn’t, please email me! I’ll send a second copy to Mr Kimura.
ZUN: Thank you.

JS: Apart from Touhou do you have another job?
ZUN: Well, besides programming, I also work on things like manga projects. It’s all related to Touhou though, I don’t really have any other job.

JS: According to Twitter, apparently you started a new job in September 2009 and turned up an hour early.
ZUN: I’m not sure what that would have been! Everything I’m doing right now is related somehow to the Touhou project. I don’t have another job.
JS: Living the dream!
ZUN: <laughs> Yes, I get to do what I enjoy as my job.

JS: I've never heard this before! Is there any final message you'd like to give?
ZUN: What I'd like to say is, Touhou is currently not being released overseas. It's a shame, because I know there are a lot of fans out there, I know that it's a name that has a following. It is something I'm thinking about, it is something I want to do. If it does happen, please, I hope you enjoy the titles that come out in the West as well.
JS: I would love to see them officially come out. Maybe with Sony’s recent drive for indies, they’ll want to put a compilation on PS4 or something.
ZUN: As I said before, it’s to do with how much work it requires. I’m quite busy with the work right now. I would definitely think about.
JS: I’m looking forward to some good developments. Thank you for your time today.
ZUN: How long will this be?
JS: Maybe 20 or more pages.
ZUN: How many others in the book?
JS: I’ve interviewed over 80 developers. I’ll have to split the volumes, but you’ll be part of the core group in Volume 1.
ZUN: In general, who have you been interviewing around Japan?
JS: Everyone, actually. Japanese developers from all sections of the industry. An eclectic A-Z of everyone.
ZUN: I don’t how much I’m involved in the industry as a whole though.
JS: You’re a well known figure. It’s not only about the industry, the doujin scene is also important. My regret is that I don’t have enough time to cover the doujin scene more.
[…]
JS: Have you followed crowdfunding, such as Kickstarter? Will Touhou ever be on Kickstarter?
ZUN: I’ve been following it. I’ll be honest with you though, there’s no need for Touhou ever to do a Kickstarter. It doesn’t really cost anything to produce. I’m making it all by myself. If it’s just one person developing it, you don’t need money to make the project work. I don’t see any reason that I would do it. One thing I worry about, I guess, is that if you successfully get all the money, and you have to make the game, and if mid-production there’s a problem… Your book was done through Kickstarter?
JS: Yes, it was.
ZUN: Isn’t it possible you could run off with the money or something?
JS: Any creator can run off. There’s no real accountability. Just my reputation to back me up.
ZUN: If that starts happening, people are not going to want to use Kickstarter anymore.
JS: It’s funny, because a couple of high profile projects hit the rocks. Tim Schaeffer received 3.5 million dollars, and then ran out of money.
ZUN: I know the story. It was the end of last year, wasn’t it? Kickstarter is kind of scary! You’re really against your own clock at that point. You have to make the game – if you run out of money, then you’re out of money.
JS: My question is, how do you spend 3 million dollars so easily?
ZUN: Did he use it effectively? Or did something go wrong? I don’t have any plans to use crowdfunding now, and I don’t think I ever will. <laughs> It might be a case that I want to buy some more alcohol, so maybe I could run a Kickstarter for that!
<everyone laughs>

ZUN: But nobody would give me money for that.
JS: I don’t know. Maybe. It’s keeping it old school – physical packaging, money for direct goods, one man and his computer…
ZUN: Yes, but it’s not like I’m trying to keep that process alive. It’s just more that it’s the way I do it. I’m used to it.
JS: Can we get a photo together.
<photo is taken> ZUN: Can I put these on Twitter?
JS: Sure! That would be great!