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Touhou Wiki talk:Guidelines: Difference between revisions

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:Have you seen how I arranged the information in [[User:Anatole_serial/Nue_Houjuu_(Template_Test)|This Sample Page]]? It's more streamlined and organized, without having many small-ish Main Sections, and taking all the subsections that are too small into a more general area. [[User:Anatole serial|Anatole serial]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
:Have you seen how I arranged the information in [[User:Anatole_serial/Nue_Houjuu_(Template_Test)|This Sample Page]]? It's more streamlined and organized, without having many small-ish Main Sections, and taking all the subsections that are too small into a more general area. [[User:Anatole serial|Anatole serial]] 00:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
::Mmm... yes, that looks better than the Mokou page right now. Still, I think the reason is because not enough information is put into the Nue page rather than too much info in the Mokou page. I tried [[Kogasa_Tatara|this]]; but I must admit, it's basically your layout, with minor tweaks.[[User:Jimreynold2nd|Jimreynold2nd]] 07:57, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
::Mmm... yes, that looks better than the Mokou page right now. Still, I think the reason is because not enough information is put into the Nue page rather than too much info in the Mokou page. I tried [[Kogasa_Tatara|this]]; but I must admit, it's basically your layout, with minor tweaks.[[User:Jimreynold2nd|Jimreynold2nd]] 07:57, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I think this was mentioned at some point earlier, but can we change the Japanese character titles in the infoboxes back to English so it's more immediately apparent? It seems kind of odd to leave them in Japanese, in my opinion. [[User:NForza|NForza]] 14:54, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
:Well, from what I've gathered based on looking at [[Sakuya Izayoi|Sakuya's]] edit history, the [http://en.touhouwiki.net/index.php?title=Sakuya_Izayoi&action=historysubmit&diff=211419&oldid=211016 character titles started out in Japanese]. I'm all for changing them to English while preserving the use of [[Template:H:title]] though. Just switch the two parameters around and it'll be fine. [[User:K|K]] 21:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
::Yeah, that would be fine, too. [[User:NForza|NForza]] 11:14, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Done. [[User:K|K]] 19:44, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


==Regarding the links back to pages==
==Regarding the links back to pages==
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:::Pretty much. Side note - currently we use kana spelling (most names), sometimes modified/no macrons (Gensokyo) [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 16:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Pretty much. Side note - currently we use kana spelling (most names), sometimes modified/no macrons (Gensokyo) [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 16:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Regarding recent edits, I found that some edit using '''yūrei''' instead of '''yuurei''', so is this the new guideline of writing such words? - [[User:KyoriAsh|KyoriAsh]] 04:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Regarding recent edits, I found that some edit using '''yūrei''' instead of '''yuurei''', so is this the new guideline of writing such words? - [[User:KyoriAsh|KyoriAsh]] 04:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Why do we use "Gensokyo", anyway? The guidelines ''specifically'' say things like that are bad, and yet it's there as a giant exception to mislead and confuse. [[User:Despatche|Despatche]] ([[User talk:Despatche|talk]]) 02:04, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
:It's A) the most common, popular spelling. And B) used in PCB. But frankly, I wish we would, as well. Due to our romanization policy it's the most accurate fit. Also, as seen when we previously changed some spellcard and song translations from what's popular to what's accurate, much to the dismay of the internet, we've shown that we don't really care for what's popular, anyway. Furthermore, even with our own romanization standards we basically disregard what ZUN wamts and what's used in official Touhou already. So IMO making Gensokyo the exception is kind of arbitrary and that it ''should'' change. [[User:UTW|UTW]] 12:31, 10 April 2014 (UTC)


== Revising Character Article Guidelines ==
== Revising Character Article Guidelines ==
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::::::Trivia was probably a poor choice for naming the section, then. After all, "trivia" means it is trivial. Maybe "additional considerations" would be better. Or simply, "Additional Information."
::::::Trivia was probably a poor choice for naming the section, then. After all, "trivia" means it is trivial. Maybe "additional considerations" would be better. Or simply, "Additional Information."
::::::Also, perhaps "Fandom" should be separated from Trivia. Fandom, after all, is something of its own - I don't see much sense in bunching it with something else.--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 20:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::Also, perhaps "Fandom" should be separated from Trivia. Fandom, after all, is something of its own - I don't see much sense in bunching it with something else.--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 20:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::To make myself more clear, I think that rather than bunching together "Trivia" and "Fandom" under "Additional Information," perhaps they should fully be separate, as simply "Additional Information" and "Fandom"--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 20:25, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
As of now, I have two suggestions:
#Separate "Trivia" from "Fandom" completely, maybe renaming "Trivia" to "Additional Information" and "Fandom" to "Fanon"
#Turn the "fandom" sections into paragraph format. When describing fanon, there is little reason to need to use bullet points.
Do these ideas seem reasonable?--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 21:05, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
:I'd also want opinions of other editors before going further on this. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 21:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
The two things I remade kinda comes to mind...
*[[Contemplations]]
*[[Contemplations/Conceptuals|Conceptuals]]
[[User:Nazeo|♥★♦]] 01:49, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
My main intention is with how we use the layout of the pages. This is a wiki that uses both canon and fanon information, but they need to be kept separate (unless vitally and high-levelly necessary, which I mean for stuff like what's under the Name section on both [[Tokiko]]'s and the [[Five Magic Stones]] articles. That's how strong the "Wiki Border" (as I like to call it) is lol). For pages with official content (e.g. characters, locations, games etc.), it should be separated from fanon information. Since they're pages that talks about official stuff, I would find it kinda weird to start talking big about the character, location, game etc. pages in fandom on a form of paragraphs, so I disagree with turning fandom into paragraphs and keep it the whole section in bullets. My main reason is because that, as Kief said, is the former Fun Facts section that still uses the bulleted layout. With that, it makes it easier for the visitor to read. Let's say s/he reads the seventh bullet. When s/he wants to look at it again later, s/he can count down the number of bullets to the seventh one to read that fun fact instead of happening to read thought the paragraphs s/he doesn't want to read and just say to him/herself "I just wasted time reading large text when I didn't want to read that! *Some more time later* Ah, it was right in the middle of this part of this paragraph right in the middle of Fandom... *¬.¬*". To add to this, adding sub-sections for each paragraph would also be odd and whether "Fandom" of "Fanon" I don't mind either way.
About "Trivia" and where it's laid... Well, everything under Trivia was meant to be "interesting facts", not "uninteresting". So if there is a word that is better than Trivia and it does mean "interesting facts" in some way, then let's use that word (but big wiki's like the Mario wiki and sometimes even Wikipedia uses this word, but idk why they do if it does mean "unimportant" lol when the list is in fact interesting). About "Additional Information"... Since everything under both Fandom and Trivia are additional stuff, it makes sense to have them kept there. Going back to Fandom, everything under there is additional information to the character. Well, we do have Nazeo's [[Contemplations]] page lol ;)
'''HOWEVER!!!!''', so some reason, I kinda agree with taking out Fandom and Trivia from Additional Information and use the Additional Information section as any other stuff that's vitally and high-levelly necessary to write in paragraphs rather than sticking it under Trivia (for e.g., Utsuho's nuclear thing). It will solve some situations with stuff like Utsuho's nuclear thing on how we lay the pages out. Going back to Fandom/Trivia, yes (if anyone's coming to a conclusion), we'll use h2 == on both sections. I'm going to do an edit on the standardisation page to show an example with what I mean. If anyone has opinions and suggestions about my edit, please use the talk on that page as I won't be replying back to anything else on this talk about this case as I feel that I said enough, so thank you in advance. ^^ {{User:Tony64/Sig}} 18:13, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
:I guess that with the kind of information that is presently in the "fandom" sections, it does make sense for it to be in bullet point rather than paragraphs. However, I think that the only reason for this is due to the legacy of having been part of the former "Fun Facts" portion. Due to this, the things that are in the "fandom" sections now are not so much an attempt to sketch a picture of how the character is commonly portrayed in fanon as it is a set of "fun facts about this character's fanon." I do think this is one deficiency about the fandom sections right now - they do not adequately talk about the how the character generally is in fanon, which is why I think I would eventually want to add more to all of these sections so that the information is there. When this information is added, I think that some of it might make more sense in paragraph rather than in bullet point format. However, I guess we will have to wait and see until then, so I agree with sticking with bullet pints for now.--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 22:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
== Talking about canon in fandom ==
Obviously all fanon things should be in fandom. However, there has recently come up the subject about talking about canon in fandom. The reason for doing so is obvious: to compare fanon and canon, and talk about exactly what discrepancy or non-discrepancy exists. Obviously, in order to do so, one needs to talk about fanon and canon at the same time - that is the only way to make such statements like "while in fanon, ..., in canon, contrary to fanon, ..." etc. After all, it only makes sense to make comparisons between fanon and canon. As the pages are right now, it would only make sense to talk about such things in the fandom section. Or, does anyone else have an alternate solution?--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 23:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
::I do consider that sort of thing important, just that everything has its place.
::Gimmie a better word for it as imo, Conceptuals sounds stupid and this does not have to be run by me, if someone can come up with a better system, please do so!
[[User:Nazeo|♥★♦]] 01:13, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:::Depends. There is no need to compare to very obvious facts about the character. I would need to see an example to better comment on it. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 01:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::::For example, on [[Marisa Kirisame]]. In talking about her popularity with females, it talks about how in her official profiles, there have been statements that she does not get along with magicians that well (not quite obvious), although there was also the statement in her Perfect Memento that she "is an interesting companion" (also not quite obvious).--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 01:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:::You could just state something like "Although she does not get along with other magicians, she has been portrayed/depected" or shorter, plus cite. I don't see why the second point is needed. Basically, mentioning canon is useful if there is a sharp contrast between fanon and canon, or if a fanon interpretation exists because of canon (Hina spinning). [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 01:55, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::::Second point is needed because it supports the fanon. It seems quite important to talk about whether or not things are supported or not supported in canon - as for all other fanon.--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 02:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::There is nothing special about being an interesting companion (could apply to any/most characters), plus in fanworks anyways this is very subjective. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 02:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it doesn't sound quite special due to the translation. The original Japanese had something more like "it is fun together with her."--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 02:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, any fanwork author can twist characters to be like that though.
:::::On a different note, there is no need to assign titles to fandom facts, or if we are, English convention is preferred. Adding "ability to the extent of" would be awkward if the rest of the English fandom doesn't use that term. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 02:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::::Well, given how the canon is important for doing derivative works, it seems important to note if such things do exist in canon, and if one doesn't really need to twist anything (since it is actually canon).--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 02:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Then the same could be said about her clothing, use of Master Spark, etc. Save it for things that may seem weird to a person. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 02:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::::The reason why it is given is because it is given right after talking about how in canon, she has been stated to be an annoyance and doesn't get along with magicians. This is to show that in canon, it can actually go both ways.--[[User:Tosiaki|Tosiaki]] 02:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:::In any case, notability seems to be subjective. I remain unconvinced, but other editors may think otherwise. [[User:Kiefmaster99|- Kiefmaster99]] 03:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
== Group column (Lyrics article) for compilation albums ==
I've come across various lyrics pages from compilation albums, like the ones from ''[[とらのあな]]'' or ''Reitaisai Official Compilation Arrange CD Production Committee''. However, they all have a different content in the "| group=" column, for the Reitaisai ones it's only ''Reitaisai 7 Official Compilation Arrange CD Production Committee'' (e.g.[[Lyrics: -Ultired-|this one]] or [[Lyrics: U.N.オーエンはJIMANGの彼女なのか?|this one]]), but for the Toranoana ones I and [[User:Tegamin|Tegamin]] have decided for ''Toranoana/CIRCLE NAME'' (e.g. [[Lyrics: Cloud nine|here]]) because we thought it would make sense to put both, the album publisher (which is Toranoana in this case) and the circle's name due to the category (which will appear on the bottom too).
Even so, we noticed edits by [[User:Quwanti|Quwanti]] who has deleted the ''[[とらのあな]]'' labels, so that the circle's name is the only one in this column. And now we're confused, which one is right? Is there a reason for the changes? And does an official guideline exists and if not, I'd propose to discuss one. Otherwise it's quite confusing to us editors. [[User:Mai88|Mai88]] ([[Usertalk:Mai88|talk]]) 15:55, 28 August 2014 (CET)
:This is also applicable on those compilation albums who are published by a single circle who has its own songs, but also include tracks by other artists ([[現夢|two]] [[ありす†ほりっく|examples]]). Anyway, I propose to put in the "|group=" field just the circle who has actually made the song and put the circle/label who has published it in an album as a category (with [[Category:]]). [[User:Tegamin|Tegamin]] ([[User talk:Tegamin|talk]]) 10:09, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
== Signature policy ==
Does this wiki have a signature policy like many other wikis? ([[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Signatures|Wikipedia:Signatures]] is a good, comprehensive example.) ‐⁠‑'''''[[User:SilSinn9801|<font color="red">Silent Sinner in Scarlet</font>]]''''' ([[Special:Contributions/SilSinn9801|SilSinn9801]])⁠[[User talk:SilSinn9801#top|&#x1F4AC;]] 02:05, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
:I'd say WP's signature policy extends to here, just not explicitly spelled out.  Feel free to propose additions to the guidelines in that sense, if you'd want.  [[User:Mami|Mami]] ([[User talk:Mami|talk]]) 02:20, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

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