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Contemplations/Maribel Hearn and Yukari Yakumo

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Maribel Hearn and Yukari Yakumo

Question: What is Merry's relationship to Yukari?

ZUN's Answer: How should I say this? In the past, there was this Lafcadio Hearn....Don't think too much about this." (laugh)

Yukari's spell cards in Perfect Cherry Blossom

This is not particularly very contemplative, but kept off of Maribel's page to reduce clutter.

  • Many of Yukari's spell cards in Perfect Cherry Blossom appear to be referencing Maribel's stories for whatever reason (or alternatively, many of Maribel's stories are referencing Yukari's spell cards in Perfect Cherry Blossom, depending on how you look at it). For some examples:
    • "Curse of Dreams and Reality" is stated in Changeability of Strange Dream's ending. "Dream and reality are different, so you can make an effort to change dream to reality". It is brought up again in Retrospective 53 Minutes's 11th section.
    • "Balance of Motion and Stillness" is possibly referenced in Changeability of Strange Dream's sixth section. "Though, the bamboo forest sloped a little, which made me lose my sense of balance. I suppose I ran straight, but I cannot say whether it was true. I ran for a long distance, but all I could see was the scene I've seen before. Does this forest lead eternally? Or am I running in the same place?"
    • "Mesh of Light and Darkness" is possibly referenced in Changeability of Strange Dream's seventh section, "Butterfly in the Zen Temple" in Changeability of Strange Dream's seventh section and Retrospective 53 minutes's 11th section, "Xanadu of Straight and Curve" appears to be referenced in the 2nd section of Retrospective 53 minutes, and "Boundary of Life and Death" (as well as Yukari's theme, Necrophantasia) is apparently brought up in Magical Astronomy's 9th section.

Possibilities:

  • Yukari consciously or subconsciously named her spell cards after these moments
    • Because she used to be Maribel and they stuck out in her memory
    • Because she and Maribel share memories
  • Yukari is not Maribel in-universe, but ZUN put these spell cards in Maribel's stories for whatever symbollic link the two have.
  • This is all just a coincidence.

Yukari's motives and goals

  • Maribel stated in Changeability of Strange Dream that she would like to transform that nightmare (Gensokyo) into a paradise by stopping the youkai attacks. Changeability of Strange Dream ended with Renko urging Maribel to make her dream (Gensokyo) into a reality and Yukari in Memorizable Gensokyo refers to herself as the representative of Gensokyo's reality. Thus, if Yukari was or is Maribel, she would actively attempt to mold Gensokyo into a realm where youkai did not attack humans (in a serious manner, as opposed to the mock duels of today). Depending on how much you believe Yukari had a hand in various events at Gensokyo's history (the moon invasion making youkai decide to stop expanding their territory, the Hakurei border forcing youkai to value humans, Yukari's agreement to send the extremely atrocious youkai to live in Former Hell away from humans, and the spell card rules that Akyuu states appears to have been drafted by a youkai), that could be what Yukari has been working towards all along.

Lunarian Prisoners

  • Yet another possibility is that once they arrive at the moon at the end of Magical Astronomy, the lunarians would have surely captured them as intruders from earth. Since it would not do for the secret of the moon capital to be let out, they would have held them indefinitely, but with an ability to manipulate boundaries, she would be able to escape, although probably not enough power to help Renko escape along. Perhaps this might be the reason for the Genso-Lunar War.
  • However, Toyohime says in Cage in Lunatic Runagate's third chapter that most earthlings that end up on the moon are simply sent back to earth and told the whole thing was just a dream.

Removing Speculations from the chart using process of elimination

Objection!

The following are contradictions to the speculations listed on Maribel's page that show why they aren't possible, along with counter-contradictions that could still leave the speculation open. If you have any personal comments on these, please leave them on the bottom of this section and sign off on them to indicate they're your own personal comments. If you have something that you're sure is an actual contradiction (IE, generally PROVES the speculation can not possibly be true, barring a few possibilities that leave it open), you can add them to the corresponding speculation, along with any possibilities that could explain the contradiction away and leave the speculation open)

Merry went to Gensokyo's past and became Yukari

Contradiction: Maribel met Sakuya. In Perfect Cherry Blossom, Sakuya and Yukari do not appear to recognize each other (more so Sakuya than Yukari)

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • From Yukari's perspective:
    • This can be explained by the fact that it's been over 1,200 years. Yukari is shown in A Flower Blooming Every 60 Years to have her general memory last only 60 years. While the memories of meeting a maid could be recorded into her longer-term memory, it would be difficult for her to recognize Sakuya as that specific maid right off the bat.
  • From Sakuya's perspective:
    • This can be explained that Sakuya would not recognize Yukari because Yukari might not look like she did while she was Maribel. After 1,200 years, there is a high possibility of Yukari's appearance changing enough from when she was human that Sakuya would not recognize her off the bat.
    • Alternatively, it is possible that when Maribel travelled through time to meet Sakuya, the time she met Sakuya happened AFTER Perfect Cherry Blossom. In this case, Sakuya would definately not recognize Yukari as Maribel in Perfect Cherry Blossom because Sakuya had not met Maribel yet.
    • Maybe she does recognize Yukari, but simply says "And to whom I am speaking?" as a snarky way of saying "My, aren't you arrogant?" After all, if the fly-in text of Yukari's name and her title isn't representative of something Yukari is actually saying, then that means Yukari did not bother telling Sakuya her name after Sakuya asks that question.
  • Maybe they simply forgot. At least for Yukari, it's been over 1,200 years, after all.
  • Difficult to discern due to the nature of the conversation, and thus a wild card regarding possibilities. However, after their battle, Sakuya and Yukari discuss things that could metaphorically be related to Sakuya and Maribel's visit, showing that although they did not recognize each other at first, the battle rekindled the memory and now they do. Sakuya without any provocation calls Yukari a butterfly, which may be because of the discussions about Maribel's dreams that may have occurred when Maribel met Sakuya, and Yukari begins discussing her house and the value of them which may be recollections of when Maribel may have talked to Sakuya about how magnificent the Scarlet Devil Mansion was (something Maribel brought up in Changeability of Strange Dream as the reason why she wanted to speak with the owner). Yukari also discusses people slipping in to Gensokyo from the outside world, which is what happened to Maribel (more drastically, she says that sometimes humans from the outside drift into her house. Thus, she could be subtly telling Sakuya that she's Maribel, the girl who's visited Sakuya before. An outsider who's slipped into Yukari's house (IE, became Yukari). Of course, in that case, Sakuya's reply "You'd better put them back where they were" is the equivalent of saying "You should probably go back to being Maribel."

Contradiction: Yukari does not recognize Mokou in Imperishable Night, despite how Maribel saw Mokou (Whether or not Mokou saw Maribel is uncertain).

Possibilities:

  • The first statement in the above contradiction, "Yukari does not recognize Mokou", can not even be proven to be true in the first place. There is absolutely nothing in Yukari and Mokou's conversation in Imperishable Night that proves Yukari does not recognize Mokou.
  • Even the second statement, "Maribel saw Mokou" is uncertain, as while Maribel saw a girl engulfed in flames, we do not know if she CLEARLY saw that girl(IE, what that girl looked like, exactly), especially given the circumstances and how brief the meeting was.
  • Maybe she simply forgot. For Yukari, it's been over 1,200 years, after all.

Yukari has come disguised as a university student for fun

Contradiction: According to Maribel's own narrative, Maribel comes from a line of people who have been able to see boundaries since ancient times, but have yet to go through them to another world. Thus, this can not be true because Yukari has successfully gone through boundaries to another world while Maribel says she and her ancestors have not.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe she lost her memory.

Contradiction: Youkai attack humans, not other youkai. Humans fear youkai. Thus the fact that Maribel, a human, is attacked in her dreams by youkai and fears them means that she is not Yukari in disguise.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe she lost her memory, which is why she feared the youkai.
    • And maybe she is Yukari and is not human, but the youkai attacked her either simply for the heck of it or for other reasons (maybe those youkai that attacked her just really REALLY hate Yukari)

Merry is Yukari's child or descendant

Contradiction: According to Maribel's own narrative, Maribel comes from a line of people who have been able to see boundaries since ancient times, but have yet to go through them to another world. Thus, this can not be true because Yukari has successfully gone through boundaries to another world while Maribel says her ancestors have not.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe she lost her memory and Maribel's narrative about her ancestors is unknowingly all a lie.

Contradiction: ZUN has confirmed that any relationship or symbollism regarding Maribel and Yukari has something to do with Lafcadio Hearn. This has nothing to do with Lafcadio Hearn. Lafcadio Hearn did not have any children. Furthermore, it gets the relationship between Lafcadio Hearn and Koizumi Yakumo backwards. Lafcadio Hearn came before Koizumi Yakumo, not the other way around.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • The statement that Lafcadio Hearn/Koizumi Yakumo did not have children is inaccurate. He did have three children and subsequent grandchildren and great grandchildren http://www.lafcadio.gr/inagaki_en.htm:
Children, 3 people:
  Kazuo Koizumi (1893-1965)
  Iwao Inagaki (1897-1937)
  Kiyoshi Koizumi(1899-1962)
Grandchildren, 6 people, out of whom 4 are still alive (Article was 
published in 2007, and some of these may have passed away now):
  Toki Koizumi (1925-)
  Yaeko Taneichi (1923-)
  Kyoko Sasaki (1929-)
  Akio Inagaki (1932-)
Great Grandchildren, 5 people:
  Bon Koizumi (1961-)
  Tatsuya Koizumi (1962)
  Ayako Inagaki(1944-)
  Tsukushu Araix (1966-)
  Akihiro Inagaki (1969-)

Yukari is Merry (and possibly Renko)'s child or descendant

Contradiction: ZUN has confirmed that any relationship or symbollism regarding Maribel and Yukari has something to do with Lafcadio Hearn. This has nothing to do with Lafcadio Hearn. Lafcadio Hearn did not have any children.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • "Something to do with Lafcadio Hearn" is open to interpretation. For some people, Lafcadio Hearn assuming the name Koizumi Yakumo and Maribel Hearn naming her daughter "Yukari Yakumo" is close enough to count.

Renko and Maribel combined and became Yukari

Contradiction: ZUN has confirmed that any relationship or symbollism regarding Maribel and Yukari has something to do with Lafcadio Hearn. This has nothing to do with Lafcadio Hearn. Lafcadio Hearn never fused with anyone, much less had anything to do with an individual with the name Renko or Usami.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Technically, this is the same thing as "Maribel Hearn became Yukari Yakumo" (which does match "Lafcadio Hearn became Koizumi Yakumo"), just with Renko fusion thrown in.

When Maribel sees Gensokyo in her dreams, Yukari is the Maribel of those dreams

Contradiction: Youkai attack humans, not other youkai. Humans fear youkai. Thus the fact that Maribel, a human, is attacked in her dreams by youkai and fears them means that she is not Yukari while she is dreaming and while she is in Gensokyo.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Beats me. "Maybe she lost her memory" doesn't really cut it in this case. TiamatRoar 18:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction: Maribel is specifically living in the near future. Yukari is specifically living in the present day.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe not only is Maribel Yukari in her dreams, but her dreams take place in a different time period than her reality.

When Yukari sees the outside world in her dreams, she takes on the form of Maribel

Contradiction: Youkai attack humans, not other youkai. Humans fear youkai. Thus the fact that Maribel, a human, is attacked in her reality by youkai and fears them means that she is not Yukari while she is in reality in Gensokyo.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Beats me. "Maybe she lost her memory" doesn't really cut it in this case. TiamatRoar 18:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction: Changeability of Strange Dream has it the other way around.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe Maribel and Renko are wrong, and Maribel's dream is actually the reality.

Contradiction: Maribel's dreams (which would actually be her reality if this speculation were true) have a VERY disjointed time order. First she is at the Scarlet Devil Mansion, and then she is hundred of years before then in the Bamboo Forest. How could she possibly be Yukari, and her time in the outside world be Yukari's dream, when Yukari/Maribel's time in Gensokyo (reality) is so disorderly when it comes to time?

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe Yukari's like Merlin and her time flows backwards. ...and she lost her memory or got her identities mixed up during those moments shown in Changeability of Strange Dream for some reason, but otherwise retained her memory during all other moments.

Contradiction: ZUN has confirmed that any relationship or symbollism regarding Maribel and Yukari has something to do with Lafcadio Hearn. This speculation gets "Lafcadio Hearn became Koizumi Yakumo" backwards.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe the fact that it gets Lafcadio Hearn and Koizumi Yakumo backwards is irrelevant.

Gensokyo itself was created in Maribel's dreams". This one comes about likely due to Akyuu speculating the vice-versa, "the outside world was created in Yukari's dreams" in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense

(This one technically is only tangentally related with Maribel and Yukari's relationship. Whether or not Gensokyo was created by Maribel's dreams does not necessarily affect a relationship Maribel has with Yukari, although it does have a high likelihood of affecting it)

Contradiction: Nothing in Changeability of Strange Dream takes place earlier than several hundred years ago. Gensokyo's history goes way beyond that. Maribel's dreams can not create Gensokyo if Gensokyo's history extends to periods before Maribel's dreams do.

Possibilities that leave open why this speculation is still possible:

  • Maybe Changeability of Strange Dream only showed a sample of Maribel's dreams, not every single one. Maybe the dream where Gensokyo is created was simply not mentioned in the story.
  • Maybe Gensokyo's history is all a lie, and anything before Maribel's earliest dream of several hundred years ago never happened.

Personal comments

If you ask me, I think the only one that doesn't have any really blatant contradictions or resorts to "She lost her memory" while still having something to do with Lafcadio Hearn is "Merry went to Gensokyo's past and became Yukari." It is also the simplest match to "Lafcadio Hearn became Koizumi Yakumo" in that it is basically saying "Maribel Hearn became Yukari Yakumo", just with a little bit of time-travelling (already confirmed to exist in Touhou) thrown in to explain the obvious time discrepancy. (Well, if you really want to be technical, "Maribel and Renko fused to become Yukari" does not, either, but disregarding the fact that people fusing together has never been brought up as a concept in the world of Touhou as well as the fact that that further complicates things beyond "Don't think about it too much", there really isn't anything mutually exclusive between the two speculations. IE, you could always have "Merry and Renko fused together, went to Gensokyo's past, and became Yukari, not necessarily in that order". If you said that, however, I honestly would probably look at you with a very big look of "Um... lolwut?" on my face) ~ TiamatRoar 18:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)