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Strange Creators of Outer World/Print Work Interview with ZUN
東方Project |
Touhou Project | |
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Windows版から数えても |
Even if you only count the Windows games, the Touhou Project celebrates its 15th anniversary. |
ことのはじまりと概要 |
Overview | |
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ZUN |
いろいろ書籍や漫画のオファーが来たのは「紅魔館」を出した後、わりとすぐだった気がするんですが、正確なところは昔過ぎて覚えてないなあ。今思うと、よくそのくらいの時期にみんな企画を持ってきましたよね。 |
It feels like I started putting out books and comics right after the release of Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, but it was too long ago so I can't remember the details. Thinking back on it now, I was often planning things around that time. Looking back on the zero era, it seemed like the flow was to get discovered as doijin and then become major. Nowadays that seems obvious, but actually it hardly ever happened. Even when they were making doujins, they were already major from the beginning. With words like doujin and indie starting to be used, the line between doujin and commercial is going to get gradually smaller. In terms of, like, distribution there are more and more systems in place, or platforms I guess, to let you handle things on your own. I hear you can even sell ebooks on your own now. Actually, when I first started Curiosities of Lotus Asia, people weren't even using the word "blog" yet, and the idea of distributing something across the web seemed out of reach for that era. |
―― |
ちょうど同じころにブログが輸入されて、その数年後にそれらを書籍化するブームがありましたね。「腐女子彼女」とか。 |
That was just about when blogs were being introduced, and then a few years later there was that novelization boom, like with "Fujoshi Kanojo."[1] |
ZUN |
ネットにあるものを取り上げてメジャーにするっていう時代がそのあたりから活発になってきましたよね。 |
The trend of picking up something online and turning it into something major started a little after that. |
―― |
今もコミック方面での流れと、ライトノベル方面での流れが、それなりにあります。 |
And it's still happening now, in the areas of comics and light novels. |
ZUN |
ウェブ漫画をそのままコミックに出すというのは何のひねりも無いっていうか、作家に乗っかってるだけのずるいイメージだけど、昔はそうじゃなくてちゃんとメジャー化していきましょうっていうほうが多かったんじゃないですか? 一緒にやって、育てて、まあ最後はアニメ化なんでしょうけど(笑)。ちょうどその流れは見えてきた時代だった。やっぱり「月姫」が大きかったんでしょうね。当時同人から会社を興していった人たちがいろいろいたのも、その影響があったように思います。まあそういった流れで「香霖堂」の話が来たわけなんですが、最初は面白かったですよ? |
Web comics that come out like that have the image of being completely unoriginal, or even that the author is sneakily trying to get in on it, but it wasn't always like that, right? Wasn't it pretty common as a way for people to make it big? Make it together, nurture it together, and in the end maybe there'll be an anime (lol). It was a time when you saw a lot of that. Like, Tsukihime was definitely big. At the time there were a lot of people who started from doujin and went on to establish companies, so I think it was an effect of that. So that's the kind of flow that led to CoLA, but the way it started was pretty interesting. |
【東方Project 書籍関連略年表】 |
"The History of Touhou's Printed Works" |
「香霖堂(こうりんどう)」 |
"Curiosities of Lotus Asia" | |
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―― |
というと? |
How so? |
ZUN |
最初はビブロス(※主にボーイズラブ系の漫画や雑誌を盛んに出していた出版社)の担当さんと二人で会った気がするんですが、向こうから「こういう設定でどうだろう」って企画を持ってきてくれたんだけど、ちょっとそれはないんじゃないかっていう内容だったから、結局こっちが考えざるを得ないんです。まあどんな企画も、基本はみんなそうですけど。向こうから持ってきた企画はだいたい使いものにならないんですよね。 |
I think it started when I met with an editor from BiBLOS (Editor's Note: a publishing company primarily known for putting out Boy's Love comics and magazines), and they came to me with this whole plan and were like "what do you think of this?" but the contents were like, no, so in the end I had to think about it on my own. Well, no matter what you're planning, it's always like that. The plan the other side brings is usually pretty useless. So anyway, it became like "let's arrange a planning meeting" and I'd never met with someone from the editing department before, so I got all dressed up. And when I was sitting there wondering who'd show up, it was like, wait that's them? She was completely different from how I'd pictured her. For some reason I'd had it in my head that'd they'd be some kind of businessman (lol). |
―― |
そのあたりはピンキリですので。 |
They run the whole gamut. |
ZUN |
その時の話は、TINAMIの佐藤さん(※香霖堂の初代担当編集、佐藤心氏。当時はイラスト投稿サイト「TINAMI」の運営母体である株式会社多聞に所属。多聞は編集プロダクション業務も行っている)からは小説を書いてほしい、書きたくないですか? くらいだったのね。でもビブロスの担当の人(※佐藤氏は外部スタッフなので、ビブロスの会社側の担当編集のこと)からは「小説を書くっていうことは、その世界の中では何を食べて、何を着て、そういうことを全部想像できてないと書けないよ」って諭されたんです。そういうことができますか? って。たしかに、その時点ではそういうことを考えてはいませんでしたよね。 |
That first meeting with TINAMI's Ms. Satou (*The first editor of CoLA, Shin Satou. At the time, she belonged the illustration uploading website TINAMI's parent company, Tamon Incorporated. Tamon Incorporated was moving into the editing production business.) was pretty just "do you want to write a novel, or not?" But the editor from BiBLOS (*Satou was outside staff, so there was another editor from the BiBLOS company side), admonished me that "if you want to write a novel, you need to be able to imagine what the people in this world eat, and what they wear. If you can't do that, you'll never be able to write it. So, can you?" That was right though, I'd never though about that kind of stuff before. |
―― |
なんでビブロスの方はちょっと引き気味なんですか(笑)。 |
This person from BiBLOS seems a little uncooperation (lol). |
ZUN |
あとで考えると、編集担当と会社の担当が違っていたからですよね。ビブロスの人は編集として来ているわけじゃないから、僕が書かないかって依頼されている側なのに、なぜかちょっと怒られてるの。この人ほんとできるの? みたいな感じで(笑)。ドキドキものでしたよ。でも、別に僕が小説を書きたいって持ち込んだわけじゃないから、言われたところで「えええ……これどうするんだ……?」って。でもやる流れになってるからさ。「じゃあプロットとか原稿書いてみます」ってとりあえずなってね。 |
Thinking about it later, there's a difference between editors from the editing department and corporate editors. The person from BiBLOS wasn't here to edit, so even though they'd been called in because I might not write it, they were a little mad for some reason. Like, can this person really do it? (lol) My heart was pounding. But it's not like I really waned to write a novel, so when I heard that it was like "uh... what do I do...?" But I'd already gotten this far, so I figured I'd try writing a manuscript anyway. |
―― |
佐藤さんは当時美少女ゲーム関連のライターとして最前線にいて、とても活躍されてた。東浩紀の弟子的なポジションでした。だから連載媒体が「カラフルピュアガール」という美少女ゲーム誌だったわけなんですが。 |
At the time, Ms. Satou was at the forefront of Bishoujo game writers, she'd made quite a name for herself. She was something like a disciple of Hiroki Azuma. So that's why it was serialized in the Bishoujo game magazine "Colorful Puregirl." |
ZUN |
そういう人に頼まれたんですね。男性向けのジャンルでは、同人誌も同人ソフトも美少女ゲームのLeaf・Keyが流行っていたけれど、そろそろ転換期だったのかもしれない。でももう当時からエロで売る時代じゃなくなってたように思うし、そこには新しいことに挑戦する人がいっぱいいたんですよね。もちろん「月姫」はエロゲーとして捉えられていたかもしれないけど、「東方」もジャンル的には同じだと思われていたかもしれない。昔は特に「東方って何のエロゲ?」って聞かれていましたもんね。今そろを言う人は、逆にわかっていてネタで言うコアな人しかいない。それだけ同人=エロゲーの時代だったんだね。 |
I was entrusted to a person like that. Male-oriented genres had become popular in Doujinshi and Dounjin software and Bishoujo games by Leaf and Key, but this might have been a turning point. But I think we were already past the point where you needed sex to sell, and lots of people were trying new things. Now obviously Tsukihime had been sold as an eroge, and maybe you could even say that Touhou was part of the same genre. In the past especially, I used to always here "which eroge is Touhou?" Nowadays the only people who says that are core fans who know it's a joke. That's just how ingrained "doujin = eroge" was back then. As for CoLA, the original plan was to end it after 6 chapters. Each one would have two parts, running for a year in total. But while it was going, we never talked at all about prolonging it or ending it, and before I knew it, it had gone on for 7 or 8 chapters. And while I was wondering when it would end, they started up a new magazine. It was called "Magazine Elfics" (the magazine form of BiBLOS Incorporated's doujin shop site "Elfics") and it was unbelievably short-lived. It was a magazine that dealt almost exclusively with doujin software stuff, but, well, anyway that was cruel (lol). |
―― |
権利関係的にダメなものを掲載するという蛮勇でしたね。さすがに許されなかった。 |
It was reckless of them to publish things they didn't own the rights to. As you'd expect, that wasn't allowed. |
ZUN |
あれにしばらく連載していましたけど、前の雑誌と本の形が違うから、困るんですよね。書かなきゃいけない文字の量も変わってきちゃうし。そうしているうちに案の定また雑誌が無くなって(※同誌は2005年10月に発行のVol.6で休刊)、今度はウェブ連載になった。あの時は、「香霖堂」の中身を読めばわかるんだけど「紙の時代がやってきた」みたいなことを書いたんですよね。 |
Anyway, I was published there for a while, but the form of the magazine and the books was different, so I had a lot of trouble. Like, the minimum word count had changed. And then, sure enough, the magazine went away (the final issue was Volume 6, published in October 2005) and now I was being serialized online. You'd understand if you read the chapters of CoLA from back then, but I wrote stuff like "the era of paper has come." |
―― |
紙が幻想入りした、と(笑)。 |
Meaning that paper had fallen into fantasy, right? (lol). |
ZUN |
そう。そうしたら今度は会社ごとなくなった(※2006年4月5日にビブロスは経営破綻)。いやー、大変でした。倒産がニュースになったときに、担当さんが朝会社に行ったら会社に入れない。だから原稿とかのデータもパソコンから取り出せない。実は、その時には単行本化の話が進んでいたんです。当時は文庫本サイズで出す予定で、もう2冊分くらい原稿が溜まってるから出そう出そう、っていう感じだったんだけど、折角だから文庫じゃなくてしてCDを付けようとかいう話になってすったもんだしていたら、会社のほうが終わっちゃった。 |
Right. And then after that, the company went away too (*BiBLOS went bankrupt in May, 2006). Man, it was awful. The bankruptcy made the news, and when my editor went to work that morning, they weren't let in the building. So they couldn't get at the data on their computer, like the manuscript and stuff. Actually, at the time we'd been talking about publishing it in a collection, there were enough to print in two small paperback, so it was like "publish, publish" and while we were discussing nonsense like releasing it as a CD instead of in print, the company itself up and ended. And after that, it was like "what do I do now", but the editor at the time was really interested in it so they found another company who would publish it for me. And that was Dengeki. We slipped in without any trouble, and kept it going just like that. The rights to the collected volumes were transferred too, so they also published those for us. That editor handed me that new place to be serialized like a parting gift, and I honestly don't know where they ended up after that. The only contact information I had was their BiBLOS email, so I had no way to contact them. But thanks to them, CoLA started up in "Dengeki Moeoh" like nothing had happened. |
―― |
「戻ってきたぜ、この美少女界隈に!」 |
"Back in Bishoujo town!" |
ZUN |
新連載のハズなのに、しれっと続きっぽい内容で始まった。ある意味、「香霖堂」は奇跡の連載ですよね。 |
It was supposed to be a new serialization, but I just casually started writing it as if nothing had changed. In a certain sense, the serialization of CoLA was a miracle. |
いろいろな意味で伝説の |
A fantastical adventure novel, in more ways than one! | |
「カラフルピュアガール」掲載版 |
"Colorful Puregirls" publication version | |
「マガジンエルフィックス」掲載版 |
"Magazine Elfics" publication version |
「文花帖(ぶんかちょう)」 |
"Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red" | |
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―― |
「文花帖」は、第1回博麗神社例大祭のときにスタジオDNA(※現・一迅社)側からの企画の持ちこみがきっかけでした。 |
Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red was put into motion with Studio DNA (*Now Ichijinsha) proposed the idea at the first Hakurei Shrine Reitaisai. |
ZUN |
あの時はアンソロジーコミックの話が優先的な感じだったんですよね。あと担当編集が今より痩せてた。 |
At the time, I felt like the conversation focused on the anthology comics. There wasn't as much post editing as there is now. |
―― |
ただ、実際に打ち合わせが始まるのはその年の末の、しかも今は無き「談話室 滝沢」で(※コーヒー1杯1000円と割高だが、長時間居られたため出版関係の利用者が多かった)。あのころはアルコールが無くても打ち合わせができたのに……。 |
But your actual planning meeting started before the end of the year, and at Lounge Takizawa no less (*Coffee was relatively expensive at 1000 yen, but it was popular with people in the publishing business because they'd let you stay for a long time). You somehow managed to plan it without alcohol... |
ZUN |
基本、場所代を払う感覚の店でしたよね。あの時は「香霖堂」とかもそうだけど、ほとんど昼間に打ち合わせをしていたんです。まだサラリーマンをしてたから休日しか打ち合わせができなかったので。あの時はアンソロと設定資料集を出したいってことだったけど、僕は設定資料集を出すのが嫌だったんですよね。なんであの時あんなに嫌がったんだろう……? なんとなくだけど、設定資料集が将来的に自分の首を絞めるイメージがすごく強くて。 |
Basically, it felt like a shop where you pay an entrance fee. It was like this with CoLA back then too, but these meetings would last almost all day. Plus there would be a lot of salarymen around too, so we could only hold meetings on holidays. At the time, they wanted to publish an anthology along with a complete guide to Touhou, but I hated the idea of putting out a complete guide. Why did I hate it so much back then? Well, I just had the strong sense that setting down the setting was just putting a noose around my neck for the future. |
―― |
(笑)。 |
(lol). |
ZUN |
ゲームが発展・展開していく時に設定で縛られていくんだろうなと思って。だから、設定を確定するようなものじゃなくて、さらに設定が拡がるようなものがほしいと思っていました。でも二次創作をする人にとっては設定週の方が良かったんでしょうね。ここはこうなってるんだ、みたいな説明書が。でも、そういう説明が無いほうが作品が拡まるんだろうっていうイメージを抱いていたんです。あとは「香霖堂」のときに学んだんだけど、結局僕がやりたいって言ってるわけじゃないから、自由に言っていいんだなって。まあ言った結果、作業が増えるのも自分自身なんだけどさ(笑)。そうして作られたのが「文花帖」だったんですよね。 |
I thought it'd tie my hand during game development. So I didn't want things that'd make the setting more concrete, I wanted things that would expand it. But to the people making derivative works, I'm sure it'd be better for me to establish the setting. Like, a set of instructions for how things are. But I'd embraced the idea that leaving things unexplained would expand the works. I learned this from CoLA, but since I hadn't said "I want to do it", then I could speak freely. But, well, in the end the results of me saying that was just more work for myself (lol). So we made BAiJR. |
―― |
そこで、拡げるためにどういう見せ方をしようかという話になったんですけど……。 |
And then the conversation changed into how to present it in a way that expands... |
ZUN |
覚えてますよ。最初の企画書に「カワウソの新キャラを作ろう」って書いてあって(笑)。それも悪くは無いしネタは他にもあったんだけど、カワウソだけは印象に残ってるなあ。僕としては本のために新キャラを作るという話が持ち上がっていたからキャラを作ることは前提として、もう一歩そこから上に行きたいと思って。その新キャラを制作中のゲームに同時に登場させることで、より広げていこうと思ってたんです。カワウソじゃゲームを作りづらいからね。天狗を作りたい、天狗のブンヤにしようって提案したんです。 |
I remember that. The first suggestion was "make a new otter character" (lol). That's not a terrible idea, and there were other good jokes, but the otter left the biggest impression. So after the idea of creating a new character for the book was brought up, I wanted to take it one step further. I thought I would expand it to having that new character in that work appear in a game at the same time. But it'd be hard to make a game with an otter. I wanted to make a tengu, so I proposed a tengu writer. |
―― |
今思うと、04年に「萃夢想」「永夜抄」で「かぐや姫」や「鬼」といったわかりやすいキャラが出てきた。だから05年に「天狗」が出てきても、元の妖怪の個性に負けないインパクトを東方が獲得してきという判断がZUNさんの中にあったんでしょうね。 |
Come to think of it, in 04 you came out with simple-to-understand characters like Princess Kaguya and oni in IaMP and IN. So you must have determined that even if you released a tengu in 05, she'd have at least as much impact on Touhou as the previous youkai. |
ZUN |
そうかもしれない。でもそこまでには、さすがに3年くらいかかったわけですよ。 |
Maybe so. But it took about 3 years to get there. |
―― |
新聞については、キャラを外側から見た時のことが書けて、さらにそれを本人に見せることで、書かれたキャラが自分自身に対してどう思ってるかが見えるんじゃないか、そうできたらキャラに深みが出るんじゃないかという話をしたような気が。 |
In a newspaper, the characters are written about from an outside perspective, and not only it's only what they're showing to the person in question, so we get to see what the characters themselves think about it, right? So by making it a newspaper, it's been said that you added a lot of depth to the characters. |
ZUN |
当時としてみれば結構な冒険でしたね。今の書籍の流れは、ほぼ「文花帖」で決められてしまったと言ってもいい。深く掘り下げるんじゃなくて、横に拡げていく、ということなんですよね。本来はそれがファンサービスなんじゃないかって思うんです。コスプレしやすいように、衣装の細部を解説をすることとかではないんじゃないかって。 |
At the time, it looked like a grand adventure. You could even say that everything I publish now is following in BAiJR's footsteps. Instead of digger deeper, it goes horizontally. My thought was that wasn't this originally supposed to be fanservice? Like, aren't there any detailed explanations of their clothes for the cosplayers? |
―― |
他には「幻想神主」が書いたという体の音楽コラムとか、異変の説明、アンソロジーコミック、インタビューなんかがあります。 |
Other than that, was a music column written by "Fantasy Head Priest", an explanation of the incidents, anthology comics, an interview, and other stuff. |
ZUN |
謎なものが多いよね(笑)。 |
So many mysterious things (lol). |
―― |
最近は当たり前になり過ぎて意識されなくなっているかもしれませんが、やっぱり作品としての東方の良さがどこにあるかを考えた時に、キャラはもとより物語も音楽も作者本人も、外せなかったわけです。 |
Lately it's been so taken for granted that people aren't aware of it, but when I thought about where the good qualities of Touhou lie in the works, I couldn't separate that from the characters' backstories, the music, and the writers themselves. |
ZUN |
「文花帖」は今では珍しいというか、「外來韋編」に近いバラエティ感がありますよね。初期の頃という言い方が正しいかは微妙だけど、この時には既に4年目なんですよね。今、4年間同じことをやってるコンテンツがどれだけあるだろうか……。 |
Something like BAiJR is unusual these days, or I guess it has a similar feeling of variety as Strange Creators of Outer World. add more |
原作付き漫画(漫画:葉庭) |
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射命丸文が制作するのがこの「文々。新聞」だ。ちなみに新聞の反対側には、文に記事を書かれたキャラと文との対話が収録されている。 |
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異変説明(?) |
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音楽コラム「幻想の音覚」 |
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射命丸文 設定画(ZUN) |
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けっこーすっきりしてます 頭のは五角形 ひもでしばってある ペットのカラスは普通のカラス 後ろ 手帳 厚手のカバー 何か和風の柄 伝統の幻想ブン屋 射命丸文 |
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射命丸文 設定画(唖采弦二) |
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タイトルロゴ候補 |
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新キャラ・カワウソ案 |
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・狂言回し用新キャラ(案) そして、その両者をワンセットにしたものが、この書籍というわけです。 |
「求聞史紀(ぐもんしき)」 |
"Perfect Memento in Strict Sense" | |
---|---|---|
ZUN |
そしてその後にようやく出てきた設定資料集。よっぽど僕がひねくれ者なんだね(笑)。 |
And after that came the long-awaited complete guide. I'm a very contrary person (lol). |
―― |
お葉書がたくさん来て「今度こそ設定資料集を見せて下さい」って。 |
A lot of postcards came in, saying stuff like "next time please show us the complete guide." |
ZUN |
結局ほしいのはそっちでしたか、っていう(笑)。だから、ちゃんと帯にも設定資料集ですって書いてありますよね。 |
Weren't you the one who really wanted it? (lol). So I wrote it so that even the band around the book was worldbuilding. |
―― |
そういえば「求聞史紀」を重版するときにふと気付いたんですよ。せっかくスペルカード表示風デザインの帯なんだから、重版するたびにカードを取得していったことにしたほうがいいんじゃないかって。だから「求聞史紀」以降の書籍で、重版されたものは帯を見ると何刷りかわかるようになってます。 |
Oh yeah, that reminds me, I suddenly realized this during the second print run of Perfect Momento in Strict Sense. Since we went through the trouble of putting that spellcard declaration design on the band, shouldn't we have made it count up the "times captured" with each new printing? So you'd be able to tell which printing it was from by looking at the band. |
ZUN |
僕の家にあるやつは全部初版だからわからないなあ(笑)。重版見本は全部事務所に置いてあるし。そういえば「求聞史紀」って、どれくらい発売延期したんだっけ? |
I dunno, everything at my house is first edition (lol). All the reprints get left at my office. But come to think of it, how long was PMiSS delayed again? |
―― |
約半年ですね。当初は「文花帖」発売の1年後に出る予定でした。 |
About half a year. The original plan was to sell it 1 year after BAiJR. |
ZUN |
まあそのおかげか、この本はいろいろと遊びが多いですよね。カバーを取った本の、本体表紙にヘコんでるところがあって、印鑑が押された風になっているんですよ。知らない人もいるんじゃないかな? |
Well, maybe thanks to that, but I played around with a lot of things in this book. If you take off the book jacket, the real cover has an indentation in it. So when you press down on the seal, it makes a breeze. A lot of people didn't know that, right? Anyway, following the pattern of BAiJR I created a new character, but I can't remember if I made her for PMiSS or if I made her for the music collections... But whatever, I think I was making them both at about the same time. But I think the reason Akyuu was created was because I'd started PMiSS. |
―― |
編集側からの提案で、完全記憶能力を持ったサヴァン症候群の少女を出しましょう、というものはありましたね。いろいろなことを覚えてそうだから。 |
You proposed it right after we'd published, you wanted to put out a girl with savant syndrome, a perfect memory. Because she'd be able to remember all sorts of things. |
ZUN |
稗田阿礼が「れい=ゼロ」だから、ちょうど9作目の「花映塚」まで作っていたんで阿「求」にしようってなった。こういう設定資料集用のキャラを作ることによって、ただ「こうですよ」って情報を出すよりは、物事に深みが出るんじゃないでしょうかね。あとは記述の真実性に揺らぎが出るというか、擬者を挟む余地が残されることになるんだけど、それはそれで使いやすいというか都合がいいんです。 |
Hieda no Are was "rei = zero" so since I'd made 9 games up through PoFV, I made her A"kyuu" (kyuu = nine). By making this sort of character for the guidebook, it could be more than just a "this is how it is" presentation of the facts, and add more depth to everything, right? |
―― |
積極的に煙に巻いていくスタイル。 |
The proactive smokescreen style. |
ZUN |
あとこの時から本まるまる一冊の中身を全部自分で書くようになったけど、量が多いから大変。文章がメインの資料集ですからね。そういえばカバーのイラストが西遊記をモチーフにしているんだけど、なんで西遊記になったんでしたっけ……こちら側から唖采さんに指定した記憶はあるんだけど、それがなんでだったかは覚えていない(笑)。 |
Also, this time it ended up that I had to fill the entire book on my own, but writing that much was a lot of trouble. Since the articles were the main draw. Oh yeah, and the cover ullustration has a Journey to the West motif, but I can't remember why. I remember specifying that to Asai, but I can't remember why (lol). |
―― |
この本が「経典」みたいに大切なものだよってことじゃないんですか? |
Wasn't it because this book was to be treated as a "sacred text"? |
ZUN |
そういえばそうだったかも? 買った人はカバーをよく見てください。かなり謎です。まあ「文花帖」が売れたから、いろいろなことができるようになりましたよね。 |
Maybe? To anyone who bought it, please take a good look at the cover. It's an enigma. Well, BAiJR sold, so I could do all sorts of things. |
空印原版 |
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博麗神主 |
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中面サンプル |
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タイトルロゴ候補 |
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メインタイトルは一番下のもの。サブタイトルは上から2番目のものが組み合わされて正式タイトルに。 |
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本と本の中の本用に |
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帯(5刷目) |
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重版ごとに帯の細部を |
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ゲーム本編を遊んだ方なら見覚えのある、スペルカードの表示風。こちらは5刷目で、既に「儚月抄」の連載が始まっていることがわかる。 |
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CDが先か書籍が先か |
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稗田阿求 設定画 |
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幻想郷屈指の文系少女。ちなみにこれらの設定画はカラーサンプルと線画サンプルの2種類が存在する。 稗田阿求 ZUN 06.4.10 |
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「求聞史紀」初期企画案 |
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一迅社様 |
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書店購入特典用に書かれた |
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霊夢、魔理沙、咲夜、妖夢が詠んだという体の短歌。それぞれZUN氏による直筆。で、右下に掲載のような「求聞史紀」イラスト担当作家による当該キャラのイラストあわせて、それぞれ店頭購入特典として頒布された。 |
「儚月抄(ぼうげつしょう)」 |
"Bougetsushou" | |
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―― |
「求聞史紀」のあとに「儚月抄」の連載が動きはじめて、今度は物語を提供していこうって。で、その際にひとつのお話を多方面から見られたらいいんじゃないか、という発想でした。それを雑誌ごとにやる、という。 |
After PMiSS, you moved to start publishing Bougetsushou, so could you tell us about that? Like, the idea of showing multiple sides of a single story in different magazines. |
ZUN |
あちこちに迷惑かけつつ実験した感じでしたね。名前の通り「儚月抄」は「永夜抄」のアンサーなんです。タイトルの文字も対応している。儚いと永遠は反対方向。夜と月とかは同じ方向性みたいに。 |
I felt like that was a troublesome experiment. As you can tell from the titles, "Bougetsushou" ("Ephemeral Moon Vignette") was an answer to "Eiyashou" ("Eternal Night Vignette" ie: Imperishible Night). Even the title was a response to it. "Ephemeral" is the opposite of "Eternal". And "Moon" is along the same lines as "Night". |
―― |
幻想郷は山の中だけど、海のシーンを出したい、という話がカギだった気がします。 |
I feel like the key to this was that Gensokyo is the mountains, but you wanted an ocean scene. |
ZUN |
そこで当然、「月の海」にしようっていう話になる。そしたら「永夜抄」と絡んだ話になってきますよね。「3誌同時連載」っていうことだったんだけど、さすがに厳しいから1つは4コマにしてもらって、わりとお任せになってた(笑)。ちょうど新連載「キャラ☆メル」の立ち上げに合わせたタイミングだったんだけど、今はもうみんな知らないですよね。「茨歌仙」が連載されている「Febri」は「キャラ☆メル」っていう名前で、サイズも今より大きかったの。 |
Yeah, so making it be about the "lunar sea" was obvious to me. Which is how it got wrapped up in IN. It was going to be serialized in 3 magazines at once, but as you'd expect that was a bit much, so we had one of them be a 4koma so I could pretty much leave it to someone else (lol). The timing matched up perfectly with the new magazine "Chara☆Mel" but no one knows what that is anymore. It's the old name of the magazine "Febri" that Wild and Horned Hermit runs in, and it used to be bigger too. Unusually, we'd already decided when Bougetsushou would end, so we had planned the whole thing out from the beginning. If we hadn't, we'd never be able to do the concurrent serializations. But thanks to that, it was the worst. At the time, people were calling it crap, but I feel like more people like Bougetsushou these days. A lot of fans were like: "why did you even make this?" but it did go too far in a lot of ways. It wasn't what people wanted. I think they wanted me to burn the whole place to the ground with none of that "Reimu losing" stuff though (lol). |
―― |
(笑)。 |
(lol). |
ZUN |
最後に何かを倒して終わるわけでもないし、読む人がみんなモヤモヤしちゃってね。 |
It didn't end with defeating anything, so the readers were left with an unpleasant feeling. |
―― |
それまでボスを倒して終わるようなゲームを作ってきましたからね……。 |
That's because all the games you'd made so far ended with defeating a boss. |
ZUN |
あえてそうじゃないもののほうがいいじゃんっていう冒険だったんだけど、冒険しすぎた。でも最近、サインを求められると「儚月抄」なことが多いんですよ。「儚月抄」の漫画連載が始まった時の「REX」とかにサインしたこともあります。まあ僕の中では漫画が「上巻・中巻・下巻」となるところを、「下巻」を「底巻」に変えただけでもかなり満足しています(笑)。 |
I thought maybe it'd be fine without that, so I took a gamble by intentionally avoiding it, but it was too much of a gamble. But lately, a lot of people have been asking me to sign their copies of Bougetsushou. Even, like, their copies of the "Rex" magazine from when SSiB was first started. Well, I'm fine with the "first", "middle", and "final" volume of the comic in my heart having its "final volume" replaced with "bottom volume" (lol). |
―― |
終わりというか区切りがあるのは読みやすいのかもしれませんね。 |
Maybe it's easier to read with an ending, or rather a place to stop. |
ZUN |
あと小説に関してはキャラクターアンソロジーみたいな感じの内容で、読まなくても一応本編のストーリー的には問題ない。だけど、こっちのほうがある意味キャラクター設定集みたいな内容になりましたよね。けっこう1話分が長くて書くのは大変だったなあ……。珍しくこの本では書名の文字が連載の時とは違っていて、TOKIAMEさんに書いてもらってるんですよね。毎回打ち合わせで古風なカメラを持ってきてくれるのが面白かったな。 |
And regarding the novel, it kind of has the feel of a character anthology, so you can follow the main story without reading it. But to me, in a certain sense it ended up as a character developing work. It was hard to write a single story for that long... Weirdly, the letters in the title are different from how they were when it was serialized, so I had Tokiame write them for me. It was interesting how they'd always be carrying an old-fashioned camera whenever we met up. |
小説用 大プロット |
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キャラメル 小説 |
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綿月豊姫 設定画 |
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スカートの下側は少しボタンを外し、前をあけて。 綿月 豊姫 |
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綿月依姫 設定画 |
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姉よりちょっと子供っぽく表情もかたい 綿月 依姫 |
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3作品同時連載用にロゴも |
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漫画版のサブタイトルが「Silent Sinner in Blue.」で、小説版は「Cage in Lunatic Runagate」。今回は書籍の特集なので漫画の詳しい話は割愛。 |
「The Grimoire of Marisa」 |
"The Grimoire of Marisa" | |
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ZUN |
「グリモワール オブ マリサ」は、軽~く作った本だけど、苦労したのは場面写真撮る人だよね(笑)。 |
Grimoire of Marisa was reeeally easy to make, but the ones who had it tough were the people taking all the screenshots (lol). |
―― |
たぶんこの本用に7000枚くらい撮ったんじゃないですかね。まだ残ってる画像も多いです。「外來韋編」ではまた新たに撮ってるんで、毎回地味に面倒です。 |
We must've taken about 7000 pictures for this book. There are still plenty left over. We take new ones for Strange Creators too, and every time it's simply a pain. |
ZUN |
僕は自分の感覚でスペルカードを選んで、どれに絵を描いてもらうか指定して、あとは文章をちょっと書くだけっていう、文章量もそこまで多くないし比較的楽なポジションでした。 |
Personally, all I had to do was pick spellcards based on my own impressions, pick someone to draw it, and write a little article. There wasn't much writing so I had it relatively easy. |
―― |
本としては、「魔理沙が小脇に抱えてるカワイイ本がいい」って言われたので、ちょっと前までとは変わってます。 |
You said the book itself was "a cute book Marisa carries under her arm" so it was a little different from the previous ones. |
ZUN |
ゲーム側にスポットをあてたいっていう話から始まって、その結果できあがったのがコレという……(笑)。「the Grimoire of Alice」っていう曲がもとにあって、それを魔理沙に変えたセルフパロディにしたらいいかなって。 |
It started with wanting to spotlight the game side of things, so this is what we ended up with (lol). There was already a song called "Grimoire of Alice" so this time it'd be Marisa's. It was a little self-parody. |
―― |
じゃあそろそろアリスの本も出しましょうよ……。 |
So isn't it about time we published Alice's book too...? |
ZUN |
今思うと、なんのためにあるのかサッパリわからない本だよね(笑)。このときに、もう「地霊殿」の画像まで収録されてるんだから、みんなどんどん古いゲームになっていくなあ。この本は表紙もキラキラしてるし、いろいろお金かかってるんでしょ? |
Thinking about it now, I have no idea what the point of that book would be (lol). It's already compiled up through Subterranean Animism, so they'd be older and older games. The cover of this book is really shiny. It must have cost a lot, right? |
―― |
それなりに。 |
To an extent. |
ZUN |
思い出した。「こういう加工があるんですよ」って渡されたサンプルが、エロ漫画のカバーだった(笑)。なるほどこういう本を買ってるんだなって(※たぶん朝木貴行氏の単行本「しょーぱん!!」のこと。2008 年茜新社発行) |
I remember now. When I was handed a sample, like, "this is how it's made", it was some porn comic (lol). It was like, "I see, so you buy stuff like this." (*That was probably Takayuki Asaki's "Shopan!!" Published in 2008 by Akaneshinsha) |
―― |
ほかにも一緒に印刷所のサンプルがたくさんありましたけど?(笑)。 |
Wasn't it together with a bunch of other samples from the print shop? (lol) |
ZUN |
漫画のやつはハートだったよね? |
There was a heart on the comic, right? |
―― |
あれが加工の面積が大きくて、見てわかりやすかったんです。だから覚えてたでしょう? 実際には魔理沙なら星だろうってことで、細かい星柄になりましたけど。 |
That was because it was easier to see if a bigger area was processed. Don't you remember? But actually, since it was Marisa means stars, there was a small star pattern. |
ZUN |
そういえば、この頃はまだ CD を付けなきゃいけないみたいな呪縛がありましたよね。でも、ある時から付けなくても売れるじゃん、って思い始めてからはやらなくなった。 |
Come to think of it, back then I was still cursed with the idea that I had to attach a CD. At some point I started thinking "I can sell these without a CD." |
―― |
今でもどちらかを選ぶなら付いてる方って言ってくる側がほとんどだと思いますけど。 |
Even now, I think most people would prefer it with the CD. |
ZUN |
もう最終的には僕が作らなくなってるっていう(笑)。「外來韋編」はあえて CD を付ける方が面白いと思っていますけどね。外の世界の「ストレンジクリエイター」の本だから。 |
But in the end, it's about me not having to make one (lol). I did think it would be interesting to attach a CD to this one though. Since it's a book about the "Strange Creators" of the outside world. |
タイトルロゴ候補 |
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中面サンプル |
「求聞口授(ぐもんくじゅ)」 |
"Symposium of Post-Mysticism" | |
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ZUN |
企画としては明確に「求聞史紀」の続編なんだけど、やっぱりただそのまま続きをやるのは面白くないからって、インタビューっていうか座談会にしようということになって。ちょうどそのころに出ていた座談会にしようということになって。ちょうどそのころに出ていた作品が、信仰がテーマに入ってるものが続いていたから、じゃあ宗教対談にしようと。「風神録」と「星蓮船」と「神霊廟」ね。「地霊殿」は微妙に違うけど……。なのでかなり宗教的な内容が多いのに、この本の副題は『これからの「正義」の話をしよう』(著:マイケル・サンデル)に乗っかってる。 |
The plan was clearly for a sequel to PMiSS, but I thought it'd be boring to just have a normal sequel, so it ended up with the interview part, or rather, the symposium. I just happened to being wanting to do a symposium, and the games I'd released just happened to keep using faith as a theme, so I thought why not have a discussion of religion. Mountain of Faith, Undefined Fantastic Object, and Ten Desires, you know? Subterranean Animsm was the odd one out but... Anyway, even though there's a lot of religious stuff, I took the subtitle from "Let's talk about Justice." (By Michael Sandel)[2] |
―― |
(笑)。 |
(lol). |
ZUN |
当時流行ってましたからね。乗っかって「これからの幻想郷の話をしよう」でいいんじゃないのって。時事ネタに乗っかるの大好きですよね。後になるとなんのことだかわかなくなっちゃうけど、時代を感じられてよくないかい? 今回の本は座談会が中心だけど、どうしてもそこには登場できないキャラもいたから、なるべくそのあたりは新聞とかをいれて紹介することにしたんですよね。しかもこの時には文だけじゃなくて、はたてがいるからウェブニュースっぽいページを作ったりした。それでも入らないキャラは最後に無理やりインタビューを入れて……(笑)。 |
It was popular at the time. So I thought why not "Let's talk about Gensokyo"? I love using current events jokes. Maybe people won't get them in the future, but isn't it great how they just give you that sense of the era? Anyway, the centerpiece of this book was the symposium, but there were some characters who'd never come there, so I tried to cover them with the newspapers as much as I could. But this time it wasn't just Aya, Hatate was there too, so I made some pages to look like web news. But even so, there were some characters I didn't add so I just crammed them into the interview (lol). |
―― |
この本が出る3年くらい前に「いつかこの人にイラストを依頼する時が来る」と思って匡吉さんの連絡先を押えていたんですが、そのいつかがこの本から始まった。今も大変お世話になっています。 |
About 3 years before the book came out, I took down Masakichi's contact info, thinking "I'll need to ask this person to draw something someday." And that someday was this book. We really owe them a lot. |
対談部分の中面サンプル。これらの対談の間に、「求聞史紀」にあった「幻想郷縁起」の一部が書き足しが挿入される。また、別途「文々。新聞」や「花果子念報」などの新聞も。 |
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座談会試作版(詳細不明) |
Symposium Rough Draft (details unknown) | |
Marisa |
「長かったぜ、ここにたどり着くまでが……。というわけで、ここからがようやく今日の本題、『これからの妖怪退治の話をしよう』。あー、しかしこんなテーマ、アイツがいないところで話を進めちゃって本当にいいもんなのか?」 |
It's taken a while, but we've finally made it... And so, the main question for today. "Youkai Extermination: What's the Right Thing to Do?" Ah, but is it really okay to start talking about this theme if without **her** here? |
Kanako |
「問題ありません。これからの妖怪退治は守矢神社およびわが社の神子であり現人神、東風谷早苗がお引き受けいたしますゆえ。そうよね、早苗?」 |
There's no problem at all. Youkai extermination from now on will gladly be undertaken by the shrine maiden of the Moriya Shrine--that is to say, my shrine--and the living god, Sanae Kochiya. Isn't that right, Sanae? |
いつのまに呼びつけたんでしょう、神奈子の後ろに早苗さんがいます。あれ、その横にしゃがんでいるのがケロちゃん様でしょうか。案外と可愛い帽子をかぶっているんですね。あとで貸してもらえるか聞いてみようっと。 |
While it's unclear when she was actually called, behind Kanako was Sanae. Oh, and the figure crouching beside her would be the froggy god, wouldn't it? She was wearing a rather adorable hat. Maybe I would ask her if I could borrow it later. | |
Byakuren |
「ちょっと待ってください! 今日こそはハッキリ言わせてもらいますけど、私が復活したからには無意味な妖怪退治はやめていただきます。それがたとえ博麗の巫女だろうと守矢の巫女だろうと、ましてや豊郷耳! あなただろうと同様にだ。だいたいなぜ人間たちは、いつまでたっても妖怪と聞けば怯えることか退治することしか考えない。この幻想郷こそ、妖怪と人間にとっての新しい一歩を踏み出せる場所のはず」 |
Please hold on for a moment! I would like to make this very clear today, but I would like any further meaningless youkai extermination to cease now that I've returned. Whether it's the Hakurei shrine maiden or the Moriya shrine maiden, or even Toyosatomimi! That goes for you as well. In the first place, why is it that humans can only think of being scared or extermination when they hear of youkai? Here in Gensokyo is the perfect place for humans and youkai to take a new step forward! |
Miko |
「おや、先にお目ざめになった割には案外と理解していないんですね」 |
My, your understanding is surprisingly low relative to how much longer you've been awake than I have. |
Kanako |
「人間は妖怪を倒す。これは変えられない理ですわ」 |
Humans defeat youkai. This way of things cannot be changed. |
Marisa |
「やれやれ、みんなお待ちかねが過ぎてたのか、いきなり飛ばしてるな。だいたい坊さんってのはそんなにすぐアツくなっちゃ駄目なんじゃないのか」 |
Geez, are you all at your limits already? Don't just start fighting all of a sudden! And to the monk over there, you shouldn't suddenly get all fired up like that. |
魔理沙さんって意外とツッコミ役ですよね。 |
Miss Marisa unexpectedly takes on the tsukkomi role. | |
Byakuren |
「冷静で僧侶が務まるなら、いくらでも努めればいい。そういう話をしているんじゃない。弱い者いじめが許されていいのかと言っている」 |
If composure befits a monk, then I will strive for it as much as I can. But that's not the question here. I'm asking if it's okay to bully the weak! |
Marisa |
「まあ確かに、最近歯ごたえがあった妖怪の記憶があまりないな。鳴り物入りでやってきたマミゾウのやつだってせいぜいうるち米の煎餅くらいだったぜ」(※強がり) |
Well, it's true that recently I can't really remember any youkai with any sort of consistency when I fought 'em. Even Mamizou who came at me with a big flourish was about as strong as a rice cracker. (bluff) |
Miko |
「しかし、私たち流に言うと道(タオ)を高め合うことで存在が保たれている、そういうことならもっと頻繁に仕合うのがよいのではないのですか。(中略)この幻想郷はそういったルールで保たれているのでしょう? だったらそれが有用に使わないと。一度博麗の巫女に痛い目にあわされたからと言って、再び挑んではいけないと言う法は無い。貴方たちは単に退治する側に回った方が“楽”なんですよね。神などと言ってはいるが、、所詮はそこらの精霊風情が信仰を集めただけの存在。そんなものは神でもなんでもない」 |
However, those of us in our school of thought preserve our existence by enhancing Tao and allowing it to enhance us. In that case, isn't it better for us to have more frequent matches? (omitted) Gensokyo maintains itself on a similar rule, does it not? Then you must allow it to be used. Just because you ran into trouble with the Hakurei shrine maiden once, that doesn't mean you can't challenge her again. All of you simply think that being on the side that exterminates is "easy". You may call yourselves gods, but in the beginning you were just spirits of the deceased that managed to gather faith. That's neither gods nor anything else." |
Suwako |
まあねー |
Well, maybe~. |
Sanae |
諏訪子様~~~ |
Suwako-samaaaa~ |
※かれこれもう18時間は過ぎています。皆さんタフですね。 |
After this and that, 18 hours had passed. Everyone is tough. | |
「文々。新聞」の掲載方法は、「文花帖」から |
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そろそろ新聞の切り抜きも幻想入りするのではないかということで制作された、というわけではなかったハズ。実際に見たことが無い、作ったことが無い人も多いのでは。 |
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タイトルロゴ候補 |
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何作か作っているうちにロゴ候補が迷走した結果。結局メインの書体は「求聞史紀」のものを継承しつつ、イラストにあわせて加工したものがカバーでは使われている。 |
番外編:漫画について |
Extra: About the comics | |
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―― |
ところで、角川系の雑誌で連載されている漫画はゲームでスポットが当たりにくいキャラを中心に取り上げる形が続いてますよね。最初は妖精、次は里の人間。 |
By the way, the comics that run in Kadakawa magazines keep highlighting characters who'd be hard to put in games. First it was fairies, and next a human villager. |
ZUN |
もちろんあの手のものは全部僕が決めていますからね。せっかく漫画をやるならこういう内容で、って。だって「三月精」のときは、編集から持ちかけてきた企画は「永夜抄」のコミカライズでしたよ。雑な企画キターと思った(笑)。 |
Obviously I planned everything that way. If I'm going to be writing comics, then this is how it'll be, kinda thing. I mean, back with "Sangatsusei" the editor proposed that I comicify IN. I thought that proposal was a mess (lol). |
―― |
「茨歌仙」は、ZUNさんがお説教キャラを描くのが得意だからと思って。 |
With Wild and Horned Hermit, I thought drawing characters who lecture people must be you specialty. |
ZUN |
今のところ、説教っていうよりは霊夢のダメなところを出す漫画になってますよね(笑)。他の作品だと出しづらいんだけど、そうしたほうがキャラクターの魅力が高まるのかなって。実際のところも、「茨歌仙」が出て以降のほうが霊夢の人気は高まってるんじゃないでしょうか。あと最初から仙人が主人公っていう話はあって、死神から追いかけられてる話をしようっていう企画だったんだけど、僕としては鬼にするのがいいかなって。 |
For now, it's less about lectures and more about showing the hopeless sides of Reimu (lol). It's hard to put that in my other works, but that's how a character becomes more charming. Actually, hasn't Reimu gotten a lot more popular after WaHH? At first there was going to be a hermit protagonist, so she'd be on the run from shinigami, but then I thought maybe it'd be better if she were an oni. |
「外來韋編(がいらいいへん)」 |
Strange Creators of Outer World | |
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ZUN |
「外來韋編」は何でこんな形になったんだっけ? 雑誌を作りたいってことだっけ。 |
So how did SCoOW end up like this again? We wanted to make a magazine or something? |
―― |
いろいろな企画があった中で、それらはさておき一冊まるごとの雑誌はやってなかったから雑誌がいいかな、という流れです。 |
There were a lot of plans, but among those we'd never done a magazine before, so why not a magazine? It went like that. |
ZUN |
そろそろ知名度的にも一周して、本当にキャラの名前だけしか知らないファンも増えてきましたから、って話だっかな。あと定期的に出す、とか? |
There was something about how it'd gotten so popular that a lot of new fans pretty much only knew the character's names, right? So we'd release it regularly, or something? |
―― |
定期とは……。まあ例大祭にも若い参加者が増えましたし、コンシューマプラットフォームに進出もしてきたから。これまでとは全く別の経路で東方を知った方もいるだろうと。 |
I wouldn't say "regularly"... Well, it was because there were more young people at Retaisai, and it'd expanded into a consumer platform. There are a lot of people who got into Touhou from a completely different route. |
ZUN |
この話をまとめると、つまり同人が変わってきたんですよね。それが東方にもろ影響をあたえていて、「Play, Doujin!」みたいに二次創作がそのままコンシューマになったり、ユーザーも同人大好きみたいな人じゃなくても気軽にコミケとかに参加するようになって、おかげで例大祭にも若い子がいっぱいになってきた。そういう時代の移り変わりがモロに出ているんじゃないかな。その人たちにとってみれば、公式や二次創作なんていう区切りはなんの意味も無くて、ただ「東方」っていう部分だけしか見ていないのかもしれないですよね。そういう時代が来たんですよ。 |
To sum it up, doujin had changed. It was affecting Touhou too, with things like "Play, Doujin!" turning derivative works into a consumer good, users being able to freely attend Comiket without being "I love doujins!" people, and thanks to that there were a lot of young kids coming to Reitaisai too. The era had changed completely. To those people, maybe they don't see a line between official and derivative, to them it's all just part of "Touhou". That's the era we're in now. |
―― |
とはいえヨドバシみたいな量販店で東方のゲームが並んでるのを見ると、まだまだビックリしますけどね。 |
I'm still shocked whenever I see a big chain like Yodobashi with Touhou games on the shelf. |
ZUN |
普通に置いてあるから、もうそういうものなんだなって。そういうことに対して「ここまで来たんだ」みたいな感じが一切しないの(笑)。やっぱり時代が変わってきたんですよ。昔だったらヨドバシで自分のゲームが売られているのを見たら感動したかもしれない、今は特になんとも思わないですよね。何故なら時代は常に変わっていくし、その時代が変わってることに僕自身が必死についていこうとしているからなんです。「これはこうでなければいけない」って思い込むんじゃなくてさ。柔軟に、でも行きすぎず。もちろんただ流されるままじゃなくて、自分が思ってるモノを大切にしながらね。理想はどんな激流でも穏やかな流れでも、同じ船に乗って先へ進めることだけど、例え沈んでも大丈夫な船にしたいですね。 |
They just put it there like it's normal, that's just how it is now. You might think that'd be like, "look how far we've come..." but nope, not at all (lol). The times really have changed. In the past, I might've been moved to see Yodobashi selling my games, but now I don't feel anything in particular. Why? Because the times are always changing, and I've desperately tried to keep up with that. You can't think "I've gotta do it this way." You have to be flexible, without going too far. Of course without getting caught up in the current either, but while treating your own thoughts as precious. Ideals are the ship that will carry you over both rapids and calm waters, but I'd like a boat that keep going underwater. But man, this has brought back a lot of memories. But everyone always comes to me with just the proposal, but I'm the one who has to come up with this stuff and do everything else. It's hard. Anyway, I feel it out. It's fine to come ask if I'll do it, but it adds a lot of work for me, and even if you say "I'll handle all the unfamiliar parts" I always end up having to do it anyway. |
―― |
そうは言っても、最終的に一番の要因はZUNさん自身が「そうしたい」人なんですよ。 |
You say that, but in the you're the one most likely to say "I want to do that." |
ZUN |
任せられないんですよね。まあ自分が作ったものは全て自分の物にしようとしますから、大切なことだと思いますよ。ものを作っている人間は、昔作ったものを「いいや」って投げっぱなしにしちゃうと変な食い物にされちゃう可能性がありますからね。もういいや、自分の物じゃないからって手放した瞬間に、作品の質が落ちる。落ちたうえに後で自分がもう一回使おうと思っても、手の届かないところに行ってしまっている可能性があるんですよ。実際そういうものは多いんじゃないでしょうか。 |
Because I can't leave it to anyone else. Well, I think it's important that the things I've made are entirely my own thing. When people who make things keep saying "no" to their past works, they might end up eating their foot later. The moment you let go of it with "enough already, that's not mine" the work loses value. And after that, even if you think you'll try to use it again, it may have gotten beyond your reach. Doesn't this actually happen a lot? |
―― |
子供にとっては何が原作かわからないですものね。「妖怪ウェッチ」なんてコロコロの漫画が原作だと思ってる人もいれば、アニメが原作だと思ってる人もいるでしょう。 |
A child has no idea what the original work is. Like even with "Yokai Watch" if there are people who think it started with the comic, there are people who think it started with the anime too. |
ZUN |
「ポケモン」とかもそうかもね。でもまあ、最初の頃はそういう申し出が来ても「いやあ、ありがたいなあ」と思うのと同時に「これを自分でやっていいのかな、上手くいくのかな」っていう疑問とか不安が半分ずつみたいな感じでしたよ。なんで僕みたいなところまで話が来るんだろう?って。でも嫌な気はしていなかった。やれるんだったらやってみようかな、って感覚だったので、話を持ってきてもらってよかったですね。 |
"Pokemon" might be like that too. But, well, even when you're first bringing these proposals to me I'm thinking "wow, thanks" but at the same time half of me is feeling worried, thinking stuff like "maybe I can do that on my own, will it really go well?" And "why'd you have to come talk to someone like me about this?" But it's not a bad feeling. It's like, if I can do it, then I might as well give it a shot, so I'd glad you came to me with it. |
―― |
なるほど。 |
I see. |
ZUN |
一迅社から話が来た時も、最初はアンソロジーコミックの提案でしたよね。 |
Even when Ichijinsha came to me, at first they proposed an anthology comic. |
―― |
合併前はそれが中心の会社でしたので。 |
That's just what their company focused on before the merger. |
ZUN |
アンソロジーはあんまりっていうか、自分が参加できる部分がほとんどないしさ。それに当時、もう同人誌で二次創作があったので、そういう悪い意味じゃなくて勝手にやっているものを、こちらが公式として出すわけにはいかないと思ったんです。 |
I'm not too big on anthologies, because there isn't much space for me to participate. Plus, at the time there were already derivative doujinshi works, so in order to let them run wild, and not in the bad sense, I thought I couldn't release them officially. |
―― |
「妖紅綺想」(※前述の佐藤心氏が、当時所属していた編集プロダクション経由で作った同人誌)には参加してるじゃないですか……まあ同人の同人が出ること自体が異例なことですけど、周りの動きは早かったかもしれませんね。 |
Did you contribute to "Fey, Scarlet Caprice"...? (*A doujinshi made through the though editing production that the aforementioned Shin Satou was a member of) Well, making doujin of a doujin is already unusual, but maybe things were developing quickly around you. |
ZUN |
当時はそういう風に盛り上がる作品がいっぱいこれから出るだろうと、そこそこ多くの人が思っていた時代だったような気がします。ただ、その後成功したのがどこだったかと考えると……あまり無いですね。みんな何処に行っちゃったんだろうなぁ。その次に同人ソフトに来たブームがニコニコ動画を通じた流れで、そこで出てきたのが「青鬼」とかなんだけど、まあとにかく今みんなが思う同人と、当時の同人では取り巻く状況とか含めてちょっと別の物だったかもしれない。 |
I feel like back in that era, many people thought that they'd be releasing a lot of exciting works like in the future. But when I think about whether they succeeded after that... not many did. Everyone went off somewhere... Afterward there was the doujin software boom brought on by Nico Nico Douga, where we got stuff liek "Blue Oni", but anyway, maybe the doujin of back then, and the circumstances surrounding it, were a bit different from the doujin people think of now. |
―― |
情報を取り入れる経由も変わってますし。 |
The way we absorb information is changing. |
ZUN |
でも当時の情報の流通規模って今の拡散の規模よりも圧倒的に少ないよね? |
But wasn't the scope of information circulation back then overwhelmingly smaller than it is now? |
―― |
ちょっとシェアしよう程度の関心も数字に乗っかっちゃいますから、必ずしも見た目の数で興味関心の度合いが測りにくくなっているのではないでしょうか。 |
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ZUN |
今の人にはインターネットが当たり前すぎますからね。当時はわざわざ「ネットを見に行く」「ネットサーフィンしに行く」って言い方があるくらい、ちょっとだけハードルが高かった。「テレホーダイ」(※23時から翌8時まで、指定した2つの電話番号までの通信料が月極め一定となるサービス)の時間だけ見に行く、みたいな。そういう、ちゃんと「ネットの時間」があって、それ以外の時間はネットに接続してなかったですよね。 |
People these days take the internet for granted. You used to have to go out of your way to "check the net" or "surf the net", so the hurdle was at least a little higher. Like, you used to only check it during "Telephodai" (*A fixed monthly rate for up to two monthly phone numbers for activity between 23:00 and the next 8:00). That was like, "internet time" and you'd disconnect the rest of the time. |
―― |
ISDN(※通常の公衆電話回線よりもちょっとだけ通信速度の速い回線)導入したいなー、みたいな。 |
Like, "I wish they'd install ISDN." (*A line slightly faster than a telephone line) |
ZUN |
今なんて、外だろうとちょっとスマホさえ触れば常にネットに接続できる。そのあたりの違いは大きいですよね。そうなったことで、初めて本の意義を考えますよね。今本を出す意味とは、ってさ。 |
These days, even when you're outdoors you're always connected to the net with just a touch of your smartphone. The difference is enormous. Once that happened, I started thinking about what the meaning of a book is. Like, what's the meaning of releasing a book. |
新作について |
New Works | |
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ZUN |
そんなわけで新作の書籍がようやく形になろうとしているわけなんですね。今度は週刊誌をネタにしたような内容のものを作っています。去年があまりにもね。「ゲス」でしたからね。 |
So that's why I decided to change the format of my new book. This time it's going to have content like a tabloid. Last year was a little, you know. Sleazy. |
―― |
報道の信頼も揺らいでますし。 |
Trust in the news is wavering. |
ZUN |
なぜか週刊誌のスクープは信じられやすい傾向にあって、そこだけが真実みたいになってないですか? あそこで出てくるものって基本的に芸能人のどうでもいい話が多くて、たまに社会派なモノもあるけどさ。でも今回のネタの発端は「不倫」ですよね。芸能人のプライベートなんてどうでもいいのに、そこを報道するのが正義みたいなことになってるのって、おかしくないかい? なんで周りの人がその報道に乗っかって叩いているのかも全くわからない。ただ、それを逆手に取って考えてみると、ゲームのキャラクターの私生活はみんなが求めているんじゃないかなって。本来、設定資料集は週刊誌的なものであるべきじゃないかな。そういう風に去年思ったんですよ。 |
For whatever reason, there's a trend pf these tabloid scoops being easier to believe, and haven't those alone become something like the truth? For the most part they just say whatever they want about celebrities, although there is some social awareness stuff mixed in. But the basis of what they release is "immorality". Even though they're just saying whatever they want about celebrities, somehow reporting on that has become almost proper. Isn't something wrong with that? And I'll never understand why everyone takes that info and starts attacking them. But when I tried thinking about it the other way around, doesn't everyone want to know about the private lives of game characters? A guide book should fundamentally be something like a tabloid. That's what I thought last year. It's funny how modern society is fine with anything when it comes to celebrities, but not for 2D characters. So I went beyond newspapers and tried to make a tabloid. |
―― |
Alternative な Facts が世にあふれようとしています。 |
The world is overflowing with Alternative Facts. |
ZUN |
ただの週刊誌じゃない。Post Truth な内容になっている。けっこういろいろな冒険をしているから、見たことが無いタイプの本になると思います。絶賛制作中すぎて、あまり言えることが無いけれど。誰かを叩いて快感を得るタイプの本ではないですね。流れとしては、やっぱりこれまでの本に出てないキャラを登場させようっていうことはあります。『文花帖』のころにあった、「設定資料集? いや、東方としてやるべき本はこういうものだよ」っていうところに戻ってきました。そういう意味では「文花帖」の正統な続編ですよね。それにしても、どんどんと本を出すたびに、1冊にかかる制作期間が長くなってますね。この本に何年かかってるんだか(笑)。 |
It's not just tabloids. It's become Post Truth. I'm taking a lot of risks here, so I think it's a type of book we've never seen before. I'd be shocked speechless if it gets high praise though. It's not the type of book where you get to feel good by attacking someone. Following the flow, I put in characters who haven't appeared in many books before. It's a return to how it was with BAiJR, when it was "a guide book? No, the book we should make for Touhou is "i>this." So in that sense it's a true sequel to BAiJR. But still, every time I release a new book it takes longer and longer. How many years did this one take? (lol) |
緊急告知 |
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東方文果真報 |
This page is part of Project Translations, a Touhou Wiki project that aims to ensure the quality of translations of all official material in the Touhou Project. |
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