Talk:Fujiwara no Mokou

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Mokou's name

Is there a reason why Mokou's name is always written as ふじわらのもこう (Huzirawa no Mokou) instead of simply ふじわらもこう (Fujiwara Mokou)? Or why Huriwara is such a common way of writing her family name even though Fujiwara seems so much more common in English?

--Deciare 12:18, 4 Jun 2005 (PDT)

The extra の is added because all members of the powerful Fujiwara clan of old Japan were named that way, as a sign of status I'm assuming. Because she has that extra の, because the Fujiwara clan was very close to the emperor, and because the Kaguyahime folktale talks of the emperor himself falling in love with Kaguya, I am assuming that Mokou's last name is supposed to be Fujiwara. The name in the IN transcript will stay "Huziwara", since that's what the game says, but all other evidence points to "Fujiwara", which is what her article will be named.
--Leviathean 14:08, 4 Jun 2005 (PDT)
Complement. This problem comes from exisiting several types of romanization of Japanese. To follow Kunrei Shiki (cabinet ordered style), it should be "huzi". To follow Hebon Shiki (Hepburn's style), it should be "fuji". You may suppose that being several romanization styles is odd and nonsystematic. But Japanese pronounciation as "ふ" & "じ" is, in IPA style, [ɸɯ] & [ʑi]. This is similar to "fu"-"hu" or "zi"-"ji", but these are like [fu]-[hu] or [zi]-[ʒi], so there isn't English sounds like Japanese "ふ" or "じ" sound, and old Japanese people considered how they should romanize. That is why there are several ways to romanize "ふじ".
There is such a difference on other Character's names. For example, Youmu Konpaku is "Konpaku", but we can write as "Kompaku" to follow Hepburn Style.
Romaji isn't a every-day writing style for normal Japanese people (it's very rare to write all letters in Romaji), so most of Japanese people don't know that there are some types of romanization, even that how they should write a better Romaji. For example, a baseball player had his name on the back of uniform like this: "Shinjyo". Anyway... Kannushi might well love Kunrei-shiki better, otherwise he might not know accurately how to write Romaji... --Masuo64 12:31, 5 March 2008 (PST)
It seems a little strange to me how her name is pronounced "Fujiwara". The 'fuji' part 藤 is fine, as explained above, however the character for 'wara' is '藁', is it not? Because '原' should pronounce 'hara', meaning her name should really be spelled "Fujihara". Can I get thoughts/clarification on this?Fujiwara no Mokou 12:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Type Fujiwara in JA IME and you get the answer - KyoriAsh 12:31, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Additional notes: The romaji spellings "Fujiwara/Huziwara no Mokou" has been appeared in the game. - KyoriAsh 12:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Ms. Fujiwara, you must know ハ行転呼 ("ha-gyou tenko"), the phenomenon that they read the "h" sound as "w" except on the word beginning, from medieval to modern. For example, was spellt like "hoho" and pronounced like "hoo" (the variation of "howo"), and spellt like "hoo" and pronunced "hoo" ("hoho" is received). Another example is , spellt like "haha" and pronounced as "hawa" once, but as "haha" now. --masuo64 Talk 05:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

For recent change by 7HS

That subtitle was my job, when it was way before Wiki/Patch project and at that time I didn't pay attention on accuracy and focused more on coolness of the sound of Engrish.
There might be more of that through IN stuffs... namely, the name "Neil Armstrong" in Kaguya's episode was put there by me based on my guess, even though it's obvious who put the first flag on the moon in our history... er wait, was that another man in the ship?
Either way, it was like my indiscretions of youth... I gotta fix them.

-Aona 22:07, 8 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Dolls in Pseudo Paradise

Added an analysis in the trivia section. When dealing with something that isn't directly stated but seems to have a ton of clues and hints leading to it (something that ZUN seems to absolutely adore, examples being his reply about Maribel and Yukari's relationship and the lack of any names whatsoever in Dolls in Pseudo Paradise), it's hard to know the line between "probable" and "speculation that has no place whatsoever on the wiki". In Maribel's case, I placed it in the fandom section. Here I seem to have slapped it into the trivia section because that's where the original text grandfathered in about it. I like to think this is probable enough that it deserves an analysis on the wiki. Really, Mokou's title and her spell cards should make it 99% obvious she was involved in the incident, and I think it would be a crying shame for that to not show up in Mokou's section somewhere. I think the analysis on what her involvement actually was seems reasonable enough to be included too rather than just say "Oh, she was involved in Dolls in Pseudo Paradise. Figure out how, yourself." But "Trivia" or "Fandom" doesn't seem to describe it well. Would a new section entitled "Analysis" or "Interpretation" (or something along those lines) be more fitting? Maybe I should just move it to fandom or something... I dunno.

TiamatRoar 19:16, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

"Subjective Speculation"

Can I get an opinion from a higher authority here?

Is there any doubt in this article that Mokou was NOT the one that started the fire? IMHO, this is one of those "so blatantly obvious that it is NOT speculation" sort of things. Heck, Aya even says it herself.

"If you think calmly about that, anyone would reach the conclusion that you were the ones who started the fire."

So like, are we to assume that people on this touhouwiki do not fall under the "Anyone" that would "reach the conclusion that Mokou started the fire", despite Aya saying that anyone who actually thinks about it would realize this?

If something like THAT counts as "subjective speculation", I will gladly scour this wiki and clean it of any "subjective speculation" which isn't 100% confirmed from ZUN's own mouth, himself, even if 99% of it IMHO falls under the "common sense" category (and believe me, there is a LOT of that, and I'm not just talking about things I wrote. Official profiles are littered with the words "probably" and many points of "trivia" in this wiki take their cues from unreliable narrator Akyu (whom also litters Perfect Memento with "It is said" and proven completely wrong on several things she stated as fact) or by adding 2 + 2 in much less clear cases than the above (but still obvious to anyone with any little bit of logical deduction, I'd think).

I imagine if all of these were to be deleted, the wiki would probably save on half of the memory it has right now.

On that note,

"I never thought that the true figure that the mouse was facing was a girl. The girl was had a red gleam. You'll wonder why I can say so. It's simple; The girl glowed herself." "No, it's not the right expression. Saying "She shot fire from her body" may be better. The deep scarlet flame spread diagonally, like a bird spreading its wing..."

Would this fall under subjective speculation to say that is probably Mokou? I mean, really now, flame from the body like a bird spreading its wing in the bamboo forest? Even the time of this event given by Perfect Memento in Strict Sense matches up with Mokou's comment in CiLR Chapter 4 that she's been rescuing outsiders from youkai lately in the bamboo forest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TiamatRoar (talkcontribs) 03:33, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

  • Mokou may have started the forest fire, yes. But it's not known for sure, especially if there's no solid evidence. The fact that Mokou is tied with the Phoenix and with fire may imply that she started the Forest fire (This was how Aya implied that Mokou started it), but in the end, the conclusion was left open-ended. Mokou could have started it and chased Aya away from releasing an article about it, or she could have been honest about not starting it, and scared her away to prevent her from jumping to conclusions. Either way, nobody really knew for sure. On the other note, it's the same. Mokou may have made the appearance in Changeability of Strange Dream, but what was really mentioned was a girl who "shot fire from her body" and "The deep scarlet flame spread diagonally, like a bird spreading its wing...", the bird and flames implied to be a Phoenix, which probably implies Mokou. But again, there's no solid evidence, and nobody really knows if she's the only fire-type human or youkai in Gensokyo, so it's left open-ended. Fujiwara no Mokou 23:08, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll remind you two, please keep it civil, and remember to sign your posts as well. Thanks. Momiji 05:38, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

On Trivia

One of the trivia lines says the following: "Although Mokou can't die, she can still probably enter the Netherworld, since Eirin, who has also taken the Hourai Elixir, once did so." I thought Eirin's consumption of the Hourai was unconfirmed.

Moreso, doesn't Mokou herself, during Ghost Team's Extra stage scenario, say that she can not enter the Netherworld, due to her immortality. --JQ (talk) 12:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Um... To add to that - Actually I think we've been missing a huge point. Eirin and Kaguya are LUNARIAN, right? The ending specifically states that HUMANS must die in order to enter the Netherworld. It's quite possible that Mokou is completely correct in her statement that she cannot enter... as she's a Hourai-immortal made from a Human base. --Felix3d (talk) 03:50, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the description because it's not indicating something special. It's true that, by following the proper protocol only dead ones can enter the Netherworld. But currently, whether or not not-yet-dead or undead, they can simply VISIT the Netherworld due to the broken seal, which is what Eirin did in IN's ending.--Doncot (talk) 13:55, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Missing Skills list

Urban Legend in Limbo has been released for a while now, and other character has their skill lists added/updated. Why Mokou hasn't had it though?

Fixed - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 16:39, 1 June 2017 (UTC)