Talk:Great Fairy Wars/Music

ルーズレイン

What are the chances that ルーズ is "Loose" or "Ruse"? "Lose" doesn't make much sense in terms of context. - Kiefmaster99 23:58, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I carelessly thought it was "Loose Rain", didn't notice the missing "o". - BrassBird 05:00, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

At any rate, Google is telling me that "Lose" is the most common TL among the Japanese. Whether it stemmed from here, I'm not sure (though I'm inclined to think it didn't since they have their own list of SC translations); just throwing that in here. - Kiefmaster99 01:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

The EX boss is Marisa, whose family name is Kirisame (drizzling rain). Drizzle is the sprinkle or natural light shower... It's loose rather than bound, both of which might associate you more easily with Suika's ability, though... Well, anyway, I prefer "Loose" to "Ruse". --masuo64 ^Talk 06:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm leaning towards Ruse when the music comments are considered. A prank-like feeling, similar to a ruse. Now "rain" I'm less sure about, considering the different homophones of rain/rein/reign/etc. Maybe ZUN intended this ambiguity as a joke, dunno. - Kiefmaster99 10:58, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

The thing about "loose" is that would be more like... well... ルース. I'm personally going with "Lose" for obvious reasons, but between "Loose" and "Ruse" I would definitely go with the latter. Despatche 15:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Japanese usually use a loanword "ルーズ" to mean "loose". E.g., "あいつは時間にルーズだ" (The guy is loose with time). As my personal opinion, I doubt that ZUN really knew "ruse", the existence of which ordinary Japanese don't know. --masuo64 ^Talk 15:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Really? That doesn't make any sense... that makes it sound like "lose" and that's simply not how "loose" works... I really don't know anything about this language, I guess. Despatche 16:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm inclined to believe that ZUN has extensive knowledge on various katakana words, given the diverse names of spell cards. - Kiefmaster99 16:29, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Counting the recent edit as a vote, this now puts the situation as 2v2. I still believe that spell card comments are a stronger indicator of which form we should choose rather than who the EX boss is. Stage music comments tend to not reference the boss of that stage much (although they are sometimes used to represent bosses in multiplayer games). There is no explicit mention of Marisa in either that part of the stage or in the comments.

There is a possible counterargument to my position however as I just realized today. The comments also make mention of "falling petals of cherry blossoms". Now this, I can accept as supporting "loose" over "ruse".

I'm also somewhat convinced that ZUN chose the name deliberately for its several possible interpretations, maybe worthy of an ED note. Touhou Motoneta does mention several possibilities. - Kiefmaster99 19:29, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

What about these two dictionary entries that list "loose" as a definition for ルーズ but don't mention "ruse" at all? For those arguing that it's pronounced ruuzu and so it means ruse or lose, check the note at the bottom of the second entry: 英語の発音では、ルース。 ("Pronounced as ruusu in English"). "Loose" is an accepted meaning for that word, whereas "ruse" is not. With Masuo's support, I think I can say that the large majority of Japanese people would not even think of the word ruse when they see ルーズ.

And, what about the fact that the dBu remix of the song is called "霧雨 ～ Loose Rain"? That seems like a pretty strong link to Marisa, and furthermore it's a Japanese person translating it as "loose". Honestly, the song-comment argument seems pretty weak to me. A ruse and a prank are different things. While the word "trick" can be a synonym for both, it's still different (note the first and third definitions). - Sensei-Hanzo 21:57, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

It is most definitely "loose." Sometimes, the Japanese borrow words from English based on a mispronunciation or based on a word in German that might seem similar to a word in English. See Google for ルーズの意味 to see my point.Tosiaki 22:22, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Sources in favor of Loose:
Jisho.org dictionary
dictionary.goo.ne.jp
dic.yahoo.co.jp　(all three definitions, ii kagen, ouchaku, and darashinai, refer to "looseness")
thesaurus.weblio.jp
ejje.weblio.jp
english.nciku.jp (three definitions provided: slovely, careless, loose)

Sources in favor of Ruse:
www.ubisoft.co.jp/ruse/ - it refers to some kind of game called R.U.S.E. and not the actual word "ruse." All other sources in favor of Ruse point to this game.

--Tosiaki 22:34, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

The above argument is perfectly logical to me, however ZUN has made fun of other Japanese games in the past. Code Slasher 15:46, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I am very hesitant to factor in the title of a fan arrange to support "loose", since that same artist takes some liberty in naming his tracks and do differ from our 'accepted' titles where different interpretations can occur (e.g. Pure in Asia).

In any case, it seems that many more dictionaries list "loose" over "ruse", which is enough I suppose to strongly consider switching. - Kiefmaster99 17:07, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Faily Wars

Wouldn't it be better to just keep this typo as is? It's still that way in the game itself and unless ZUN patches it (very funny) it's never going to go away. Whether or not it was corrected later shouldn't be an issue.

We should keep "Faily Wars" and, in the description, mention that it was later corrected (put a link to the album?), instead of the other way around. If the English patch corrected it (I don't remember it doing so), that should be mentioned too. Of course, if ZUN ever does patch it, it should be corrected but the typo should still be documented. Despatche 15:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

It is typo, as in the original Music Room description is written as "Fairy Wars" - KyoriAsh 15:57, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh Shit Son! I just noticed that. I don't remember that at all, how terrible of me. I still think the display title should still be "Faily Wars" because it's still there, but the description shouldn't change. It may be better to point out that the song description spells it with an R (and this spelling was used later) alongside this change. Despatche 16:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Faily Wars typo should be noted as of now, as the original title mentioned below the description indeed is Fairy Wars - KyoriAsh 16:05, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Your Life?

The title "Staking Your Life on a Prank"; I can't imagine who "you" is.
I think either "Our Lives" is better, otherwise "Their Lives" is also acceptable. It's Three Fairies who the subjects are, and who are staking their lives. What do you think on this idea? --masuo64 ^Talk 13:24, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Comment. English is weird in that "Your" can be used in place of "One's", as in "staking one's life" (see wikipedia:generic you). As with lives, there is also the limitation in the English language in that we have to choose "life" or "lives", and both could apply given the context (can refer to all three fairies in general as in their theme, or one of them during the two boss battles this applies to). - Kiefmaster99 16:18, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Comment and support: In spoken language "Staking your life on a prank" could make sense, but I don't think we're using the spoken language for this translation. "One's" is grammatically correct and does not have the ambiguity that "your" has in this case. It doesn't sound too awkward either. I'm not sure about "their lives" because it may not readily appear to readers that "their" is indicating the three fairies (well, maybe not to those who frequently visit this wiki, but when the title is separately used in another website where people are just talking about GFW music, then it may appear ambiguous). I'd prefer "One's life" here but what are other people's thoughts? --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 16:28, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I am going to have to oppose the use of "one". Use of "you" or "one" depends more on formality. Given that this is a music title, and for the three fairies, I would prefer the use of casual "your". - Kiefmaster99 18:27, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, understood. Any others' opinions on this? Since I don't find this issue as urgent as the "Heaven Temperament" issue, I could stick with keeping the song as it is. --This message from DeltaSierra4 was delivered on 20:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose In this case I believe that (thinking in Spanish) we are dealing with the "vosotros" "you" and not necessarily the "tú" "you". Thus, the song implies that the fairies are jointly staking their lives on a prank.

The tense of the title makes more sense this way as well. In this sense, "You [Y'all or Vosotros] are staking your lives on this prank of yours," versus, "They are staking their lives on this prank." I'd like to think of this as we are talking to the fairies themselves as we say this. Code Slasher 00:34, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

- 静 -

Here's something to ponder... does this really say "still", or would it make more sense to say "quiet" or "calm" to denote the nature of the song? Also, shouldn't this be capitalized when translated? Code Slasher (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't particularly care about the translation (all three make sense in different ways IMO), but it should definitely be capitalized, I think. ― Darkslime 13:34, 24 September 2013 (UTC)