Talk:Hopeless Masquerade

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Where should I put blog post transcription and its translation at... if there "are" demands[edit]

I think there's no problem transcribing Tasogare's blog post answering some questions for the C83 release, but I don't know where to put it. Any ideas?--Doncot (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2012 (EST)
And here's the table:

心綺楼のマスターアップ終了

これで今後トラブルに見舞われなければ12/30のコミケ東A-62aにて

体験版配布の運びとなりました。
HM has gone gold.
This means that—unless we encounter some kind of trouble—we're prepared to distribute the demo release at A-62a in Comiket on Dec, 30th.
と言う訳時間もできましたので
こちらに良く来た質問の中から答えられそうな物をいくつか
So, since we made time to spare
I'd like to respond to the answers which is okay for us to reply from the commonly sent questions.
・地面無いの?

A床はあります。と行っても床バウンドやられ程度しか

 ゲームには影響しないので演出的な物ですね
Q. Don't we have the ground?
A. You will have a floor. Though it will only affect the game in such manner as floor bound hits, so it's merely a kind of stage effect.
・ネット対戦ありますか?
A体験版では未実装となりますが、最終的には搭載する予定です
Q. Will there be an online match feature?
A. There wouldn't be one in the demo, but it should be there eventually.
・上下に動けるんですか?

A上下が急上昇急降下のコマンドになっていて、自由に上下に行けます

 ただ軸をずらして留まり続ける事はシステム的に難しくなってます
Q. Can we move up and down?

A. The up and down buttons are made into steep climb and steep dive commands, and you could go vertical freely with them.

But it's been made systemically difficult for you to stay disengaged with the axes (of each other).
・スペカ、デッキはありますか?

Aデッキではありませんが必殺技やスペカをチョイスして
 キャラ構築するシステムは健在です

 スペカは今回単なる大技で無い恩恵が有るので悩ましいネタに
Q. Will there be Spellcards and the deck?

A. There won't be any decks, but the system that you can chose special moves and Spellcards to conduct your character still remains.

Since the Spellcards in this game have a benefit of not just a powerful attack, it has become a concerning feature.
・人気って何ですか?

A「観客の評価」で稼ぐと良い事が有ります

 プロレスゲームと言う人も居ますねぇ
Q. What is "popularity"?

A. Something good will happen if you earn it from the "audience's reputation".

Some say it's a pro wrestling game.
 動画見ての演出絡みの質問も多かったのですが

 この辺あくまで動画は開発中の物なので

 今後整っていくと思っておいてください
There were many questions about visual related stuff, seeing the movieclip,

but those clips are after all materials under development,

so be sure to be acknowledged that those would be adjusted onward.
ではでは So it's bye-bye for now.

--Doncot (talk) 15:10, 21 December 2012 (EST)

Text Dump for the Translators[edit]

Here are some pieces of text in the manual.txt. Dumped inelegantly.

Story

ストーリー
度重なる天変地異、無慈悲な運命、
それらが人間の里に厭世観をもたらした。

 死んでしまえば皆同じじゃ無いか、  そんなニヒルが人心を埋め尽くす。

 『ええじゃないか!ええじゃないか!』  ついには自暴自棄な声も聞こえる始末。

 しかし、幻想郷には失われた心を  満たす事を生業とした宗教家達が居た。

 幻想郷にお寺を建立した僧侶  俗世を捨て不老不死を目指す道士  そして復権を目指す巫女

 彼女達は決意した。  こういう時こそ「私の出番」だと。

Character Profiles キャラ紹介

・八百万の代弁者    博麗霊夢

特技:万有霊力の法則(霊力最大値がアップする程度の特技)

バランスの良い打撃性能と変則的な射撃を持ち 前強射撃の結界を通すと色々な物が恩恵を受ける事が出来ます


・人間代表の魔法使い  霧雨魔理沙

特技:三度目の粉飾魔(大技を三回使うと次の大技が強化される程度の特技)

左右への移動力と突進力がウリ 射撃も得意ですが小回りが利きません。


・圧倒する妖怪行者  雲居一輪&雲山

特技:静かなる怒気(被弾すると怒り心頭する程度の特技)

動きは緩慢な物の、雲山による補って余りある射程とパワーが魅力 怒り状態になると攻撃力増加で大逆転のチャンスです - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 01:38, 30 December 2012 (EST)


Character Profile Translation (Rough, Please look over)


Introduction of Characters


Advocate of the Eight Million Gods

Reimu Hakurei

Special Skills: Universal Spiritual Law (Skill level up to maximum spiritual power)

She has a balance of good performance. She's able to move through the borders, and even benefits from it.


Witch Who Represents Humanity (Alt: Representative Witch of Humanity)

Marisa Kirisame

Special Skills: Three Magics (Skill level is increased 3 times, as special moves are performed. The special powers are improved)

Speed and power make this witch an amazing force. She's really good at shooting.


Youkai Who Overwelms (Alt: Overwelming Youkai)

Ichirin Kumoi

Special Skills: Sharp and Quiet Rage (She gets a reason a fly about and unleash her rage)

She has quite a modest power and range, using that Unzan. She gets angry a lot, it increases her chance of an attack increase.


Please revise when you have the time for accuracy! Lukesky180 (talk) 12:18, 30 December 2012 (EST)

The golden Cassock[edit]

Following the translation of Journey to the west, and the this discussion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACassock I have a suggestion to call the Ichirin's clothing that is over her robe. If anyone have any other idea please do say Berzul (talk) 13:35, 30 December 2012 (EST)

Quoted from someone else on another board "Ichirin is wearing a Japanese-style kesa in HM, though its design is greatly exaggerated and simplified from real kesa. The word may originally refer to robes, but in East Asia it has become an additional decoration on top of normal clothes. Her other winning pose instrument is a wooden fish." UTW 17:02, 30 December 2012 (EST)

Gameplay mechanics, to be sorted later[edit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf6JuXCUvEI Stun Optimization. It's possible to continue hitting someone after reaching 100% limit but before actual stun is applied. Example here is added Marisa's broom slash for +50% damage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VWV4XlyAMA Marisa BnB. Works anywhere on the screen, 2.9k damage and stun. Add spark for 7k damage total.

Proration never goes below 10%

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Amra (talkcontribs) 21:30, 31 December 2012‎ (CET)

Regarding background characters[edit]

Seeing the last few page edits, I'd like to point out that many games that portray characters in the background also have the same characters in the playable roster, either removing the character from the background while that character is being used or simply letting two of them exist. The golden rule here is to refrain from posting ANY speculation, regardless of how plausible it may seem. -- HakureiIllusion (talk) 10:27, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Is it actually posted anywhere on the wiki that background characters have a high chance of not being playable? I don't see anything on the main HM page or Murasa's character page about it, though I didn't bother checking any other characters and just pulled Murasa as an example. On Murasa's page, it just says "Background character", which is confirmed to be true. It doesn't really say anything about "ONLY background character" or "Background character, thus probably not playable", but I didn't read her whole character page thoroughly or check any others so I may have missed it. TiamatRoar (talk) 15:17, 14 January 2013 (EST)
I guess that it's more about what has been already removed from this (Hopeless Masquerade's) page. (version in question, last bullet of Gameplay section)• DennouNeko–[ 15:22, 14 January 2013 (EST)
So far, it looks like none of the playables and background characters overlap. Do we know if all the characters have been released, or if they're holding any back for the release proper? This seems like a very odd set of characters, since Nitori and Ichirin are only stage 3 bosses, and Koishi is as far as we know unrelated to the religion wars?
Not featured anywhere, yet: Rumia, Hong Meiling, Flandre, Alice, Yuuka, Hina, Momiji, Iku, Tenshi, Kisume, Yamame, Parsee, Hatate, Mamizou, Akyuu, Kasen, Kosuzu
Though, Mamizou's name appears in the first demo (acompanied by all the already announced characters), so it is assumend Mamizou will be playable too, plus a new boss character. This will give room for two more stages. ☢ Quwanti 15:42, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Today it seems like there was no new character -- are we done with announcements and are just waiting for the release?
After Koishi was announced they said no more new characers will be revealed. However, they will post a new gameplay video around these days. ☢ Quwanti 17:59, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Parallax Backgrounds[edit]

"Parallax backgrounds"? That's not true at all, the backgrounds are entirely 3D. I was going to make the change myself, but I thought people would flip if I didn't explain it. If nobody believes, I can even post a screenshot of the ripped geometry of the human village. --PeejsterM (talk) 18:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Going in further detail with the moveset[edit]

Stupid headline. Anyway, I think with the system of this came it is useful to, besides the skills, having the moveset of a character on a seperate page (/Gameplay/Ichirin Kumoi or something). This, because of course a different "religion" gives a different moveset which is useful to the reader. ☢ Quwanti 17:48, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Welp, no answers. Though, I would really like to have this on the wiki. ☢ Quwanti 14:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I've created an example page of how it could look. User:Quwanti/Hopeless_Masquerade. Special skill could go a little more into detail, but the idea should be known. ☢ Quwanti 22:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
Well? Otherwise I will just start creating them (Hopeless Masquerade/Character/Ichirin and Unzan, etc) because they are helpful and important. ☢ Quwanti 15:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, between the religion thing and the fact that every character has a special skill (like Ichirin's rage meter,) I think it's a great idea to have separate pages for different characters' skills and moves and whatnot. The one you created looks really nice and convenient to me.Flan27 (talk) 01:45, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Created the page. I just realised it might be much more usefull for the reader to also have the skills and spells in the same page, making the spell card subpage rather useless. Any thoughts on this? ☢ Quwanti 18:56, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Pre-Release Site Profiles[edit]

On the HM site character profiles are being posted as playable characters are being revealed. These are different from the in-game profiles from the demo. Feels like we should be doing these. UTW 20:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

When the full game is released we will extract and change them. ☢ Quwanti 20:46, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Announcement[edit]

From what I've heard, Twilight Frontier is no longer announcing new characters for Hopeless Masquerade. AWMonopolyMan 000 (talk) 16:32, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Tasofro's Twitter confirms this with a post on 5-21-2013. ("With this character announced, that makes everything.") La bruja pícaro (talk) 17:15, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Little info on each character unique mechanic.[edit]

Info are from official site and some of my own testing. Maybe not exactly accurate.

Reimu Longer spirit gauge than other characters.

Marisa Gain 1 star for each heavy projectile attack or special moves. After 3 stars the next heavy projectile or special moves will be more powerful version of that move. ex. wilder, more damage.

Ichirin When get hit, rage(怒) meter will be bigger, when full her hit do more damage.

Byakuren Have to call her special moves before use and if it deplete or change to another special moves, She have to call again.

Futo Dish get upgrade for each 20 dish use(by using special moves like ricochet fireball). Dish projectile and special moves that use dish do more damage for each upgrade (different color, dish number max at 99).

Miko Do more or less damage according to popularity.

Nitori Projectile and special move drain battery(usage is differently according to each one). If battery is 0 the move that require battery will be weaker or can not use. Battery is refill each round.

Koishi When press heavy attack, heavy projectile or special moves and she will pose. The move will come out according to time or distance from opponent. Can store heavy attack, heavy projectile, special moves at the same time, but if it the same type of attack the newer one will replace older one if it not use yet.

Sprites[edit]

So, I just found the Sprites of the game. Here you can find some weird mask for Kokoro in one of her sprites and her LW Portrait. https://mega.co.nz/#!4kYwmBDC!SmTZ-C64zOHcgPfdv6zY6CNwMcZTzb77tbvTbIt5hpY --Camilo113 (talk) 19:53, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

"Heart Fabric Tower"?[edit]

Instead of translating 綺 ki as "fabric", I feel like a better translation would be "beauty", along the lines of 綺麗 kirei meaning "beautiful". Several sources (1, 2) list "beauty" as a second meaning after fabric. "Heart Fabric Tower" doesn't really make any sense because fabric doesn't hold any relevance to the story of the game, but if it was "Heart Beauty Tower" then you could at least kind of stretch the meaning into Kokoro learning about the importance of emotions (i.e. the beauty of the heart). Would like some opinions. Polaris (talk) 02:04, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

To contribute to that, might something like "Tower of Heart's Beauty" work?
I am Risa. Best of fortune be with you. (talk) 06:19, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Gonna bump this topic since it never reached a conclusion either way. Any thoughts? Polaris (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
You should just change it if you think it's more coherent that way, personally I think it is, you do have a good point. On the other hand, jisho also lists beautiful as a meaning for the kanji, while giving a lot of examples on the common usage of it, mostly using it as "pretty"; "lovely"; "beautiful". If there is disagreement, the topic is here on the talk page and was created almost 2 years ago. --Camilo113 (talk) 01:38, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
I've not consulted a dictionary, but in my sense 綺 sounds "brilliant/bright/elegant" rather than "beautiful"... On the other hand, I suppose the kanji 楼 means "high architectural structure" in Japanese usage, which seems a "wrong" meaning for people living in the other countries of the kanji culture area. It's sometimes read as "yagura", in the way of reading 櫓 regularly. Then I searched "盆踊り やぐら" at google images (if you can't jump, please search it for youself...), you'll find the 楼 means "tower" literally but it's in fact "the special stage for performers like the dance leaders and the drum players at the festival, being built on the top of tower for participants to watch". Uum, well my opinion is that the translation should be composed clear to imply something like "Kokoro's elegant dancing stage", both the process of story mode (metaphor) and the dance itself after the incident (literal meaning). --masuo64 Talk 02:59, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
In the end I just changed it to "Tower of Heart's Beauty" per the above suggestion. Though I agree that "brilliance" or "elegance" is a better word, I felt like neither of them were snappy enough for a title :P For 楼 rou I figured it might be better for now to go with consistency for the translation (wrt the use of the same kanji in Youmu's swords and that one song from EoSD). Polaris (talk) 03:23, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
For the title 心綺楼 (shinkirou), should we consider 心 as refering to Hata no Kokoro's name or the concept of Heart? And, is Elegant the most accurate translation of 綺? Brilliant sounds good too but I don't know if it fits the context in japanese at all.
So we have:
  • Kokoro's Elegant Dancing Stage
  • Kokoro's Brilliant Dancing Stage
or
  • Elegant Dancing Stage of the Heart / Heart Elegant Dancing Stage
  • Brilliant Dancing Stage of the Heart / Heart Brilliant Dancing Stage
Sorry for the kinda basic question but it's to settle this once and for all. --Camilo113 (talk) 03:31, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Oops, sorry for my rough explanation. I'll consult some dictionaries for proof when I get to home... After the edit of my opinion above, I also feel like add both the literal translation (e.g. Elegant Tower concerning the Heart — Kokoro managed to make her self, mind, consciousness, or heart; and we could say "dance" as the struggle of all characters.) and the rough interpretation (e.g. Kokoro's Elegant Dancing Stage). --masuo64 Talk 04:12, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Well, the Japanese name is originally supposed to be pretty artistic and abstract anyway, so personally I'm for keeping the translation on the literal side. Polaris (talk) 05:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
That's fine, but considering the format for the other games titles like Koumakyou (紅魔郷 Scarlet Devil Land) and Kanjuden (紺珠伝 Ultramarine Orb Tale) instead of Land of the Scarlet Devil and Tale of the Ultramarine Orb respectively, shouldn't we go for something like Heart's Beauty Tower? Even if it sounds kind of weird in english; to keep the literal translation of the kanji above the title of the game it's quite better.
On a side note, if there's no objections, we could also add a little reference to the title of the game indicating that yagura ( lit. tower) can also be written as 楼, like in the title, and can refer to , a tower (tall building) but also to a bandstand tower (the dancing stage) used for Bon Festivals, much like the one Kokoro was using in HM's ending. That's all --Camilo113 (talk) 16:38, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Actually, it looks like the jisho.org link references an outdated revision of the article for "yagura", and the alternate writing of "yagura" as 楼 is removed in a later revision. I can't find any other sources that specifically use 楼 as an alternate writing either, although there are some that list "yagura" as another definition of 楼. I think it's a little shaky, but I wouldn't be against having a note that goes into the nuances of the title that can't be easily captured by a simple translation.
Regarding the order of the words, I think that's a good point, but we should also change the titles of TH15.5 and TH16 if we're going to make it an intentional thing. Polaris (talk) 19:00, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Uh, for my own input, as the guy who started listing writings for the games' primary titles, the entire point of having them is to reflect in English, what a Japanese fan would see in the title. It is meant to complete the title in a sense, because many people will simply ignore the primary titles because they're Japanese. As such, the order of the words in English should be the same as the kanji, and they are also not meant to be liberally interpreted in translation; we should be going for simplicity, and allow a reader to make the connections where they exist. If there is enough hidden meaning in the name to require a paragraph to explain, then write a paragraph in the article. This does not necessarily mean to be completely literal for each individual character, especially when there are kanji with many possible meanings -- This is why 萃夢想 is "Gathering Reverie" and why 緋想天 is "Scarlet Perception Heaven" and not something more basic like "Red Thought Sky". Judging by this discussion, the current text of "Heart Elegant Tower" is fine, as would probably be "Heart Elegant Stage" even. I was also about to reorder the titles for 15.5 and 16, so since those are done I think we're all good here. Drake Irving (talk) 10:35, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
For a raised stage, would "Podium" work? "Rostrum"? They can be used for a speech rather than a performance, though given the popularity contest that still seems appropriate... --Prime32 (talk) 13:00, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
The fact that a Noh stage is just called a stage is probably good enough, if we even went for that angle. Drake Irving (talk) 17:20, 12 May 2017 (UTC)