Talk:Hopeless Masquerade/Characters

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Byakuren's title[edit]

This is a terribly loose translation, but I believe her title to be "The Acharya Who Was Beyond The Primates". There's a very good chance that I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound too bad. ...I'd really like it if someone could check those things soon.^^;Risanderu Yumikozuki (talk) 17:01, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I think "Acharya who Surpassed the Primates" flows a bit better, but you're pretty much right. Good work! Gilde (talk) 15:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh well, thank you then.^^ Glad to be useful.^^;
I hope an expert arrives soon to confirm...Risanderu Yumikozuki (talk) 17:01, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Futo's title[edit]

"The Feng Shui Master Governing the Dragon Pulse." , alternatively "The Feng Shui Master Holding the Pulse of the Dragon". Just as a base...^^;Risanderu Yumikozuki (talk) 13:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Miko's title[edit]

"The Almighty Symbiosis of the Universe". Again, as a base. EDIT:Huh, already taken care of on MoTK, "The Almighty Taoist Who Administers Space".Risanderu Yumikozuki (talk) 12:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Messy list[edit]

The list of background characters is rather messy. Maybe we should change it do a different kind of list. Maybe in tables like this:

Hakurei Shrine stage Chen, Ran Yakumo etc
Palanquin Ship Nazrin, Lily White etc

Quwanti 00:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

  • I agree with Quwanti, there're a lot of blank spaces that lengthen the list; and the table list will be much more organized without using that much space. --Camilo113 (talk) 00:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I just wanted to say sorry for the rushed and incomplete thing I started, I had to leave the computer I was at for class reasons. Thanks to whoever finished it, who I have a feeling was Quwanti, and sorry again for the inconvenience. HijirinMyouren ??:??, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Koishi's title[edit]

空想上の人格保持者 — I put a temporary translation "Imaginary Person with Personality". Now some people fixed it as "Holder of an Imaginary Personality". I made it thinking like;
1. 人格保持者 sounds to me similar as 核保有国 (state with nuclear weapon), of course it's just a sense of sound, and my temporary translation has no logical confidence. The syntactic form of it is like "国 with 核". So I set the syntactic form like "者 with 人格" → "person with personality", which translation looks odd for the word repetition & the nonsense meaning, while the original word just has the nonsense meaning, not an odd sound.
2. I've never had an idea with convinction whether 空想上の modifies the phrase 人格 or 保持者: whether 空想上の人格保持者 (person with imaginary personality) or 空想上の人格保持者 (imaginary person with personality). I suppose these two kinds of interpretation must be both a little odd but sound interesting, so I haven't reached my conclusion yet whether is better. --masuo64 Talk 00:00, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd go with "Imaginary Personality Holder". Direct translation, and keeps the ambiguity. Is she a personality holder that is imaginary or a holder of an imaginary personality? It can go either way, so let it be up to interpretation. Polaris (talk) 00:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm the one who changed it to "Holder of an..." in the first place, and I definitely agree. "Imaginary Personality Holder" sounds good. Gilde (talk) 01:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Reimu's Title[edit]

Can we please, please, please, please, please, please not use the literal "eight million"? Even Rinnosuke says it doesn't literally mean that. NForza (talk) 05:35, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

You mean, it should be fixed, for exmaple, into something like "The Advocate of All Gods" or "The Advocate of Multitude of Gods"? Hmm my idea can't reach the border for a good solution... --masuo64 Talk 07:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
My idea was "The Advocate for the Myriad Gods" but "for the Divine Multitude" has a nice ring to it. NForza (talk) 07:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

History & Real-World References[edit]

I've noticed that many of the HM profiles involve odd references that are relevant to each characters' basis. Maybe the Buddhists have less to speak of or I'm not as good at noticing theirs, but the Taoists first come to mind with their profiles.
Futo's 大火の改新 is a homonym of 大化の改新 (Taika Reform)
Miko's 詔を承けては必ず鎮め is based off of article 3 of Prince Shoutoku's constitution: 詔を承りては必ず謹め ("When you receive the Imperial commands, fail not scrupulously to obey them.")
Then there are certain romanizations that haven't been spoken of consistently. Byakuren is called a 阿闍梨 but I don't know if this should be Ajari as it's read in Japanese or Acharya as it's written in Hindi, and I don't know how this sort of thing is handled on the Wiki. There's also the matter of Futo's title, involving the "Dragon Pulse," or 龍脈. I'm using Google Translate since I can't read Chinese, but the Chinese wikipedia states that it's a flow similar to veins that courses throughout mountains and rivers. Kotobank, which I can read, says it's a spiritual sensation that flows throughout and underneath the rivers, earth, and mountain ranges, and that Feng Shui makes use of the Dragon Pulse to push out its energy at certain points (龍穴). From those points or areas comes fortune, so to speak. Do we call this the "Dragon Pulse" or "Ryuumyaku," and what of the context?
Something's at the back of my mind regarding Nitori and Koishi, but those two don't seem quite as entwined with these strange terms as the Buddhists and Taoists. Any other observations should go here, if anyone else has something. La bruja pícaro (talk) 22:47, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I've seen it translated as "Dragon Pulse" before, but there's already an English-language equivalent: "Ley Lines". --Prime32 (talk) 00:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
That's really helpful, thank you. I'd heard of the phrase before but never actually understood it in any given context. So for Futo, that would mean her title should be "Feng Shui User that Administers Ley Lines"? (I think it should be something like "Master of Feng Shui that Rules the Ley Lines" instead, but I digress.) La bruja pícaro (talk) 01:01, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I shall object the translation "ley line"; it must be a de-facto concept of New Age, or of New Left. Perhaps 龍脈 should be translated as "Long Mai" or "Dragon Veins"; 龍脈 (Chinese: 龙脉; pinyin: lóng mài) is pronounced in present-day Mandarin as above... By the way, why I say in Mandarin is just because Fengshui seems to me quite unpopular except those who love superstition — No, it's popular among lovers of Power Spots, who are enjoying religious places as consumers of commercial entertainment. indeed the Fengshui seen in Japan now might be no Fengshui, which is why I don't read the word as "ryuumyaku" in Japanese... Well, I've searched the word in Google Books, and I found it translated into English as "dragon vein"; look at the result. And one of my searches hit this page, which seems to have no effect from New Age. Skimming in this, I think "long mai" might be veins/flows, not linear lines without joining together. Well, my conclusion is we should use the word of Feng Shui, since Futo is at least temporarily a Taoist, not a New Left or a Power Spot Lover. --masuo64 Talk 07:12, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Okay, that makes sense. They do seem to be defined as "veins" and not "linear lines," but the two definitions seemed really close at first glance. Also, I didn't know about how that stuff was generally handled in Japan, so the established context is awesome to have now. I think that Long Mai would be preferable in order to preserve the Chinese theme, but Dragon Veins does yield more English-speaking hits on Google, so as usual, I'm terrible at leaning any particular one way for my opinion. There is a site I found that says it's comparable to ley lines but is still a distinct concept, at least. I don't have enough references for my opinion to be swayed in one direction much more than the other, but I prefer Long Mai to keep consistent with the Chinese theme. For that same reason, I prefer Byakuren to be called an Acharya rather than Ajari unless there's outstanding context to make Ajari more suitable a translation than Acharya. La bruja pícaro (talk) 13:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)