Talk:Hopeless Masquerade/Story/Futo's Scenario

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things left to fill in[edit]

Stage titles, newspaper titles Background music for the prefight conversation and win lines, spaces for the lose lines, translations for the rest of the page —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReiKusanagi (talkcontribs) 05:09, 30 May 2013

Crown Prince?[edit]

Why is it that Futo refers to Miko as "Crown Prince"? Makes no sense since Miko is a girl...MaronaPossessed (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Because that's what she says. I've seen some people translate it as "Crown Princess" for obvious reasons, but since the series has made no attempt whatsoever to reconcile Miko's gender with the real Prince Shoutoku which the title is obviously a reference to, I think it makes more sense for Miko to simply hold a male title. On the other hand, I can't say whether or not any woman has historically every been referred to as 太子, so maybe it's more gender-neutral than I think. Clarste (talk) 22:33, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Thinking about it a bit more, even if it is gender neutral I'd rather translate it as "Her Highness" or something than use "Princess". I think it's very important that Miko is not a princess in the same sense that a number of other characters are. Clarste (talk) 22:41, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
For what it's worth, someone did recently change it to "Crown Princess" on the story pages for Ten Desires, and their explanation on the talk page says that it was indeed used for at least one real-life princess (namely Lý Chiêu Hoàng of the Ly Dynasty in Vietnam). If it were me, I'd rather have more people reach a consensus before going ahead with a large change, but if 太子 is gender-neutral after all I don't see a reason not to. Gilde (talk) 22:48, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Also, I agree with what Clarste said about using a different term compared to other "princesses" in the series. As far as I know, Miko's not exactly a 姫様, for instance. Gilde (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Four years later this and Miko's page still use Crown Prince while the TD pages use Crown Princess. Can we please clear up the inconsistency? UTW 01:47, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
Maybe it's just because I'm too used to it by now, but honestly I feel that Crown Prince is natural enough to use. Saying that it doesn't match Miko actually being a girl kind of feels like it misses the mark when ZUN has deliberately set up this situation where Shoutoku is historically referred to as male -- whether this one particular term is gender-neutral or not focuses too narrowly on that alone when really it's one part of a larger commentary. Even if there are cases where 太子 is gender-neutral, if it's common enough that the expectation is that people think of a male, then that is probably what the intention is for using it. The fact that you have to think about why one might say Prince instead of Princess is important to keep, I feel, and using Princess loses that meaning. It's also potentially even more confusing when you talk about both "Miko" and "Prince Shoutoku" simultaneously, since calling 太子 "Prince" when it's Shoutoku but "Princess" when it's Miko despite being literally the same person is kind of wat. Using Prince as a title dipped in history makes much more sense to me because it's a title and not something like a pronoun, rather than flip-flopping depending on the context. Drake Irving (talk) 04:31, 15 May 2017 (UTC)