Talk:Menreiki

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This might be silly, but since Menreiki in Touhou are basically "Tsukumogami of masks", shouldn't we at the very least list this as a subtype of Tsukumogami, even if a full merger isn't required (kinda like how we list Celestial as a subtype of Hermit)? I do understand that the mythological counterparts might not be related, however.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:52, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I think the problem is that Menreiki has a very specific definition, but tsukumogami does not. Menreiki refers to a type youkai made of Gigaku masks. Tsukumogami on the other hand, does not have a clear definition as it has been used to describe different concepts in Japanese folklore. Also, its definition has changed throughout the centuries, so there is controversy as what the definition should be. However, it should be noted that the consensus is that tsukumogami are considered to be beloved household objects that have come to life at age 100. I don't know Gigaku masks qualify as household objects. I think that we should leave these separate since mythologically speaking they are different. I'm going to see if I can find any information in the Gazu Hyakki Tsurezure Bukuro, where the Menreiki is mentioned. Update: In the Japanese Wikipedia article for Menreiki, the last sentence says something about tsukumogami and then cites a book other than the Gazu Hyakki Tsurezure Bukuro (GHTB). I can't read it though. Everything I've read about the GHTB suggests that most of the creatures in it are tsukumogami, but some aren't. When searching for lists of the tsukumogami in the book, I could not find Menreiki on those lists in English and I'm uncertain about the Japanese results I got (most looked like complete lists of all of the creatures as some on there were definitely not tsukumogami). This is not to say that Menreiki are not a form of tsukumogami, but can't find anything substantial to support it. I think that we should see what that passage says and then make a decision before merging or adding it as a subtype. Murasaki (talk) 08:34, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Alright, so it probably isn't a tsukumogami in terms of real world myths. However, that doesn't change the fact that in Touhou, Kokoro, the only Menreiki we see, is identified as a tsukumogami. It does looks like, in terms of at least Touhou, Menreiki is a subtype of tsukumogami. Heck, both Kokoro's page and this page note Menreiki as a subtype of tsukumogami, which is why it always puzzled me that the wiki otherwise treats them as if they were completely separate.--Otherarrow (talk) 12:35, 14 August 2013 (UTC)