Talk:Phantasmagoria of Flower View/Music

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Cirno's theme name[edit]

おてんば恋娘 - "Beloved Tomboyish Daughter" vs. "Tomboyish Girl in Love" ? I'm inclined to think the former. -7HS

Clearly it's Otenba LOVE GIRL. But seriously, I tend to agree. --T. Solamarle 19:45, 8 August 2007 (PDT)

Tewi's theme name[edit]

Is Tewi Inaba's theme called White Flag of Usa Shrine or Lord Usa's Elemental Flag? becouse i have seen some calling it Lord Usa's Elemental Flag and some others calling it White Flag of Usa Shrine.-Rikimaru Tsuki 11:16, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

White Flag of Usa Shrine is the translation used in the English patches and the wiki, so it's a safe bet that it's the most correct one. !8RstuPId2Y 20:51, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
I'm inclined to think it's a mix of both. I have no idea where the current translation gets its "shrine" from, though. Shouldn't it just be "White Flag of Lord Usa" or something similar? Popfan (talk) 08:14, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
The old "Elemental" translation probably came from a misinterpretation of 素い, since 素 can mean either "prime/fundamental/elemental (etc.)" or "plain/bare/white (etc.)". It's most likely "bare/white" in this case, matching Tewi's title as "the bare white rabbit of Inaba".
お宇佐さま literally means "Lord Usa" (o-usa-sama), but it's also used interchangeably as a term referring to Usa Shrine itself. This is also the case for various other shrines, such as the Suwa Grand Shrine being called "O-Suwa-sama", the Ise Shrine being called "O-Ise-sama", and so on. (JP shrine home pages w/ examples of this usage: 1 2)
(there's prob. cases to be made for/against both the "Lord Usa" and the "Usa Shrine" translations but personally idc which gets used :v) Gilde (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Wind God Girl - removing the "(Short Version)"[edit]

I move to remove the "(Short Version)" from Wind God Girl. Either that or to add it to the music pages of StB, SWR, and Soku.
I know it's listed as "風神少女 (Short Version)" in the PoFV music room, but this is the exact same version that's used in StB, and that one is simply "風神少女". It doesn't make sense to have the exact same track with two different names. Plus, SWR (and consequently Soku) uses an arrangement of this version, and it's also simply "風神少女".
The BAiJR version is the only full version, and it would make far more sense to add a short note about this under the "Notes" section on that page rather than keeping the inconsistency that currently exists (we could also add a note on each music page for complete clarity). Or we can call it "風神少女 (Short Version)" on all four music pages. Either way, it's better to have this minor divergence from what's in the music rooms than to keep what we have now, since what we have now is VERY confusing - until I looked into it a few months ago, I thought that since the PoFV and StB versions had different names, they were different versions (a reasonable assumption!).
I'll hold off on making any changes for a while in the hopes that folks will notice this talk page and we can agree on a course of action, as a change made here could also affect the arrangement albums that use this theme. K.B. 18:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Hmm! Provided that there are actually noticeable differences between the Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red version and the other versions, I'd say that we should say "(Short Version)" on the other pages. Code Slasher 20:10, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
I see that Tony64 made a note on the BAiJR CD page - thanks. We're still left with the issue of the games' music pages, though. Ultimately, I'll be ok with whichever change we make (assuming we make one, which imo we definitely should!), but it makes far more sense to me to adopt the more recent naming convention. "(Short Version)" hasn't been used in the three music rooms since PoFV's, so the PoFV title seems like a one-time thing... like it's an fyi note. At this point, I think that would be better served as a note, rather than as a part of the title, seeing as how ZUN hasn't used it since.
Code Slasher (and anyone else curious about the difference): it's the "Short Version" plus three more minutes. Here's a youtube of the full version. Skip to 3:03 to hear the part that's different. The addition is keyboard work playing with the established melody. So, it's not like this morphs into something wildly different, but the difference is most certainly noticeable (and worth noting). K.B. 19:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


Hmm. When I translate this word, I end up getting something similar to "Phantasmagoria of Flower View". I know the title of the game translates it to "Flower Viewing Mound", but why is that? Code Slasher 15:25, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Are you using an automated/machine translation or something?--Tosiaki 15:28, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
This is not a valid explanation. I'll wait for a valid explanation. Code Slasher 19:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I was not explaining anything. I am simply asking you a question (if you haven't noticed the question mark). It is because you used the phrase, "I end up getting something similar to..." which seems to be very strange language to use for anything other than automatic outputs.--Tosiaki 19:32, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
That is what I used, but your statement doesn't answer my question. All I want to know is why Kaeidzuka does not translate to "Phantasmagoria of Flower View". Code Slasher 21:13, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, I am not sure which translator you used, but 花映塚 is, of course, the name of the game, and in the English-speaking world, we use "Phantasmagoria of Flower View" to refer to the game. This is somewhat like translating the word ロックマン ("Rockman") into "Megaman" because even though we know that they are not the same in terms of what they mean, they refer to the same thing. In this case, it turns out that the name of the music theme is the same as the name of the game, not quite unusual for Touhou Project. When such a thing happens, we take it as what it means, carrying on the meaning of the title of the game - in this case, "Flower Viewing Mound."--Tosiaki 21:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Something similar happened with "妖精大戦争". We say "Great Fairy Wars" when referring to the song, but the English-speaking community refers to the game as "Fairy Wars". They both use "妖精大戦争". It kind of reminds me of the "Unthinkable Natural Law" incident, where we decided on here that that was the incorrect title for the game. It might have been for a different reason, though.... Code Slasher 02:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, I guess I myself am a bit uncertain on that. After all, it is true that the more sensible title for that would indeed have been "The Great Fairy Wars." This is because ZUN has explicitly stated that its title is a parody of "The Great Youkai Wars."--Tosiaki 03:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
To address the first question. Whether you are using an automated translator is a relevant question. In particular, Google Translator sometimes gives outputs that seem to be decided by its users, or some other method, even if it's wrong. At one point in time, ツェペシュの幼き末裔 (The Young Descendant of Tepes) translated as "Final Stage Theme".
As to why "Kaeidzuka does not translate to 'Phantasmagoria of Flower View'," the "main title" does not have to equate to the "subtitle". They can be related, but there is no strict rule that they are equal. It also allows similar works to be grouped while remaining distinct. StB and DS are both photo shooters, but are different titles. Touhou Sangetsussei involves the three fairies but are in different books, kind of like how there's a "Harry Potter and the Blah of Blah". - Kiefmaster99 04:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


I can't help but think that "Gensokyo, Past and Present ~ Flower Land" is ambiguous. It looks like it's got two meaning; it's either making a list (without a serial comma) or it's stating that "Past" and "Present" belongs to "Gensokyo", where I would've thought it needed a colon rather than a comma. I presume it means the latter, but would its punctuation need changing to disambiguate its meaning? Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 17:45, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Not really. A comma is acceptable in a sentence to state that the following things belong to the thing before the comma, for example. Code Slasher (talk) 08:38, 23 March 2014 (UTC)