Talk:Saigyou Ayakashi

From Touhou Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search



Order of it's name[edit]

I know it's a bit late to ask this though, are there any reason for it's name order being reverted? "Saigyou Ayakashi" is one actual word than a name in first/lastname style, so I think there's no need to revert this one unlike most of other characters... (it may sounds strange that this question is coming from who's been following "Ayakashi Saigyou", but I've got someone asking about this issue and had a second thought.)

If there's no paticular reason, shall we change it to "Saigyou Ayakashi"?
...well, I know it'll be quite a bit of work to change all article that mentions about this tree, as well as the patch, so maybe it's too late to change it by now, though.

--Aona


Ah, I suppose you're right. Don't worry about it being too late to change, it's not a problem. If it's really like that, should it be Saigyou Ayakashi, or Saigyouayakashi, or something else altogether? --Leviathean 13:00, 20 Jul 2005 (PDT)


Hmm, I'm not sure. For me Saigyou Ayakashi appears better but that's just my opinion.
Which way is more common for other multi-word noun in English?
(Oh, and sorry for delaying answer, it's been exam season for me.) --Aona


Well, if you put it that way, I suppose we'll use Saigyou Ayakashi as it's official name. Oh, one last question before we start changing everything: Should we use "the Saigyou Ayakashi" (like "the Statue of Liberty"), or just "Saigyou Ayakashi" (like "Times Square")? --Leviathean 17:56, 26 Jul 2005 (PDT)
(Also, did you know you can automatically include your name and date when signing by typing "--~~~~"?)


Hmm, it's one big tree so... it would be "the Saigyou Ayakashi" I suppose.
(btw, I didn't know that signature feature... thanks for info, though I can't log in atm as Hotmail server I was using for retribing PW gives me DNS error and IE decided to log out from wiki automatically...)
--Aona

About its actual name[edit]

I'm not too good with japanese and I didn't look around a lot in the official sources, but I only found translations for 西行妖 as "Saigyou Ayashi(i)" and never "Saigyou Ayakashi". SO I started to wonder, is that just an error on my end or did I actually find something? ._. --Arget 20:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

西行寺家にはいわく付きの妖怪桜「西行妖(さいぎょうあやかし)」がある。この桜は、幽々子がここに来てから、どんな春になっても、開花する事は無かったのだ。from Yuyuko Saigyouji
Ah, thanks. I don't want to doubt the Great God, but perhaps ZUN himself made an error there? Oh well, we'll never know and thanks again for the clarification. :) --Arget 18:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Does "Saigyou Ayakashi" have any meaning? Other articles (i.e. for characters) examine the etymology of the names (i.e. the characters for "Yuyuko" mean "Ghostly child" or "secluded child"), but nothing for this one. And now I've gotten curious ... —Kimiko 00:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Ayakashi is a special reading from when the 妖 kanji is used as standalone, with the meaning of 'supernatural creature'. Pretty much the same thing as 'youkai', which is written with this same kanji (妖怪).--Nietz 01:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Complement. "Youkai" consists 2 kanji "妖" & "怪", which have same Kunyomi reading "ayashii". Both have similar meaning "strange", but "妖" is more able to impress some supernatural or superstitional power of ghost. "妖精" (elf), "妖艶" (elegantly erotic), etc... "怪" impresses us strangeness more, which is used much more for everyday expression. Essentially we have been apt to assume as strange & odd the alienism & otherness, particularly an extrordinarily mighty phenomenon. Then "妖" is something strange but mystic enpowered, like something waiting to eat us.

So "Saigyou" = "west journey" and "Ayakashi" = "really weird creature"? —Kimiko 16:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Literal meaning is probably correct. But Saigyou is derived from Saigyou, whose haiku appears in PCB with Sakura & the misery. So I think we should not care too much about the literal meaning of "Saigyou", as we think Spiderman is derived from spider, not from Old English word "spithra" or "spannan" (spin). We should look at "Ayakashi", which is something very mystic. Saigyou Ayakashi is the weird sakura & has the impression assosiated with death, as one in Saigyou's haiku...

Character page?[edit]

I find it kinda weird for this thing to have it's own character page...MaronaPossessed 00:59, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I also think this shouldn't be listed as a character. —Nereid talk 09:50, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I've changed it to no longer be a character page. Does anyone have a good reason why it should be a character page? —Nereid talk 10:42, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, according to the page, "Ayakashi is a general term for supernatural beings, very similar to youkai". Only living things can be supernatural beings and trees are living things. Because of this, I do think this living tree is a character. This may sound really daft, but to also note, I've never came across anyone who says "trees aren't characters". To extend the note, many Japanese (and English) fans tend to see this tree as a character.
Who else agrees with this to return the default characters page without complaint? Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 17:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
It isn't listed as a character in any official works. Whether fans see it as a character is irrelevant. —Nereid talk 20:27, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Fans tend to see other thing's (such as the Five Magic Stones, Evil Eye Sigma, and even the Youkai Flower Midboss) as characters. These 'characters' have also not been listed as a character in any official work, but fans have classified these as character's, so why can't it go same on Saigyou Ayakashi? Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 22:35, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Those three other things you list appear in a game and interact with the player (via danmaku or whatever). The Saigyou Ayakashi doesn't interact with anyone in any game. Also, I've already said before that what fans think is irrelevant. Everyone I talked to in #touhouwiki disagrees with its classification as a character. (You're welcome to join #touhouwiki so that we can have a more efficient discussion.) —Nereid talk contribs 21:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Mmmmm........ OK, fair enough, if loads of people disagrees with this being a character, then we'll not classify this as a character then. But should we at least keep the character template, or put it under some category saying it's not a character? This tree does appear in a game, don't forget. Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 10:57, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Jubokko?[edit]

Ah yes, this is where I thought of the Jubokko I made on the Bestiary navbox... Anyway, I was thinking... Could have this tree been based on a Jubokko? Saigyou seem to ask similar to a Jubokko... Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 15:39, 26 September 2011 (UTC)