Talk:Symposium of Post-mysticism

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Translation[edit]

I know that this will obviously take a while to translate, but how long do you think it takes for a major cannon print title to get translated? Just wondering. Everfeather 03:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends...information will pour in without the translation by people who read it in Japanese. The English will come in by fragments after pieces of the Japanese is posted somewhere or typed directly from the book. After the full Japanese is posted, then early drafts filled with massive amount of translation-misses come in within hours where good ones will take several days, weeks, months, a year or mabey several. It all really depends on how interesting the book is. Depending on the type of words used, it may be really simple or difficult (Basically, "How would you say this in English" type of stuff).--Hikaruxz 03:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually, translating a cannon wouldn't be all that hard; just insert *BOOM* whenever it fires. *rimshot* --Wymar 20:53, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Transcription[edit]

I transcribed a scan (the first part of Kyouko's article) from the scans being leaked atm.

I don't want to put it up with proper formatting so someone else can do that. Until we get a reliable set of scans, though, it would probably be a good idea for people doing this work to keep track of it on this talk page, so make sure to post it here. Darkslime 15:40, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I shall do it, even though it'll need a lot of time. --masuo64 Talk 10:01, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
Whenever it says "Continued on next page", does that mean that there's stuff afterwards that hasn't been transcribed yet or is just a lie and there's plain nothing to transcribe? --Wymar 20:54, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
At the time of transcribing full scans of all pages weren't available yet, so there is more but not yet transcribed. It is however possible now to transcribe those parts as scans of the full book are available now. ☢ Quwanti 00:14, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Characters who are out[edit]

As I see, they're only mentioned in the Afterword by ZUN. They are: Momiji Inubashiri, Kasen Ibaraki, Watatsuki no Yorihime, Watatsuki no Toyohime, Iku Nagae and Tenshi Hinanai.

My fav character is out (Tenshi)... ZUN... I hate you... ;_;. Why Minoriko Sisters but not Tenshi!? WHY!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plubio (talkcontribs) 21:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

And Kisume. ZUN probably had his reasons. Besides, to me, the Aki seems to be more important to the subject (religions) than Tenshi. ☢ Quwanti 21:24, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Mamizou[edit]

I tried with the translating, but it's so frustrating when you read it and you understand it, yet it just doesn't come out in English. Thats as far as i'm going since i'm getting no motivation for the ability portion.

  • Ability: Enough Power to disguise things and herself
  • Risk: High
  • Human friendship: Very High
  • Main place of activity: Myouren Temple, Forest of Magic and so forth
  • A very unusual youkai tanuki said to have come from the outside world. Has an old music like appearance and ability, than a youkai who has evolved independently in Gensokyo. Although originally she appeared to be the boss of bake-danuki and properly having dignity and charisma, this itself becomes a spark to become a source for great potential.
  • Gensokyo originally having many youkai tanuki already living here, she should be carefully watched if she as a forginer can get along with those feral tanuki.

--Hikaruxz 21:28, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

That new coal part...I don't know anything about English phrases to compare it with so I just left it like that... --Hikaruxz 21:30, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Spark? Fuel? --Hikaruxz 21:33, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I hope you didn't use my transcription, since I've found out I forgotten a line there (it's fixed now).
佐渡の二ッ岩 Futatsuiwa from Sado
二ッ岩 マミゾウ Hutatuiwa Mamizou Mamizou Futatsuiwa
能力        化けさせる程度の能力 Ability: Enough Power to disguise things and herself
危険度      高 Threat level: High
人間友好度   極高 Human friendship level: Very High
主な活動場所  命蓮寺、魔法の森など Main place of activity: Myouren Temple, Forest of Magic and so forth
 外の世界からやってきたという非常に珍しい妖怪狸。幻想郷で独自に進化した妖怪よりも、古曲的な容姿と能力を持つ。
 元々、化け狸の頭領だったらしく、それ相応の威厳とカリスマを持つが、その分新たな火種の元になる可能性が高い。
A very unusual youkai tanuki said to have come from the outside world. Has an old music like appearance and ability, than a youkai who has evolved independently in Gensokyo. Although originally she appeared to be the boss of bake-danuki and properly having dignity and charisma, this itself becomes a spark to become a source for great potential.
 幻想郷には元々妖怪狸が数多く棲んでおり、それらの野良狸と外来の彼女が上手くやっていけるのかは注意深く見守っていく必要がある。 Gensokyo originally having many youkai tanuki already living here, she should be carefully watched if she as a forginer can get along with those feral tanuki.
化けさせる能力は自分の姿のみならず、他の物体も変化させる事が出来るという物だが、幻覚とは異なり無から幻を生み出す事は出来ない。何を騙すにしても、元になる物体が必要なのである。その物体も変化後に近い物体で無いとすぐに見破る事が出来るだろう。例えば、犬を鳥に化けさせても、空を飛ぶ事が出来ない為、すぐにばれてしまう。あくまでも見え方が違うだけで、性質は殆ど変わらないのだ。 (insert)
 また、本人が化けると尻尾が隠せない事が多い。これは化けた抜き、化け狐全般に言える事だが、完全に尻尾と耳を消すのは不可能で、見えない位小さくしたり保護色でカモフラージュしたりして見えなくしているのである。しかし、動揺したりテンションが上がったりすると、つい耳と尻尾が動いてしまい、凄く目立つ。 (insert)
 これは、尻尾の大きさが妖力(cont'd on next page) (insert)

Kyouko[edit]

Please see Kyouko's page. Darkslime 19:11, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

読経するヤマビコ Yamabiko who Chants Sutras
幽谷 響子 Kasodani Kyouko Kyouko Kasodani
能力        音を反射させる程度の能力 Ability: Enough Power to reflect sound
危険度      低 Threat level: Low
人間友好度   極高 Human friendship level: Very High
主な活動場所  妖怪の山、命蓮寺等 Main place of activity: Youkai Mountain, Myouren Temple
山に向かって大声を上げると、律儀に返事をしてくれる妖怪山彦である。古来から何処の山にもいる有り触れた妖怪である。楽しげな声には楽しく返事をし、怒りの叫びには逆ギレで返す明るく楽しい妖怪だが、近年では個体数が減少しつつあるようだ。その理由は、里の人間に山彦の声の正体が音の反射だと噂され始めたことで、山で大声を上げて話しかけてくる人間の数が減ってきたからだ。多くの山彦が存在意義を失い、自然消滅していったようだ。 If you shout at the mountain with a loud voice, the youkai known as yamabiko will reply with integrity. It is a very common youkai found in every mountain from ancient times. It will reply in a joyfully to a joyful voice and a shout of anger will result in a angry reply right back; although a postive and joyful youkai, in recent years their population appears to continually decline. The reason for this is a rumor started among the humans of the village that the truth behind the voices of the yamabiko are reflections of sound causing the number of humans who raise their voices in the mountains to decrease. This caused many yamabiko to lose their purpose in life, resulting torwards a natural extinction.
 彼女はそんな世を虚しく思い出家した。今は命蓮寺で修行しているようである。修行の内容は、毎日の門前の掃除だという。お寺から聞こえて来るお経の声で、殆どのお経を暗記してしまったようだ(*1)。もちろん意味は理解していない。 She entered priesthood in vain thinking of that world. It now appears as though she is training at Myouren Temple. It is said that the contents of her training is to clean the front of the gate everyday. It seems that she has memorized nearly all of the Buddhist sutras(*1). Of course, she doesn't understand what they mean.
 大きな耳と小さな尻尾を持っていることから判る様に、元は獣の妖怪である。しかし、肉食獣のような凶暴さは持ち合わせていない。大声を上げる癖に比較的臆病で、登山客と鉢合わせするとすぐに姿を消す。そうして離れたところから、大声で「どうだ、驚いたか!」と呼びかけるのである。遠くから大声を上げるものは、基本臆病なのだろう。 (insert)
 ちなみに、一人のときは割りと大人しい妖怪の筈だったのだが、最近はお経の独り言をはじめたようだ。少しストレスが溜まって (cont'd on next page) (insert)
*1 門前の妖怪、習わぬ経を読む。 (insert)

--Hikaruxz 01:14, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there is any "I" or first-person in this translation. If someone was to say 殆どのお経を暗記してしまったようだ, they're not talking about themselves. I changed it for the sentence after that, too, just for consistency. (The 理解していない could in fact be referring to a first person, but I doubt it) Darkslime 12:55, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Extra Profiles[edit]

trollercoaster's gallery of profiles and the unknown original poster on Jp

More help from the good ol' guys from Lunatic Red! :D

♥★♦ 03:17, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Full name in titles[edit]

We might want to use the full names in the titles, like we did in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense. ☢ Quwanti 07:22, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

The current cover filename is inconsistent with every other print work. All other print works reference the English portion of the title if it exists (IotMaIotE is the exception as there is no English subtitle). - Kiefmaster99 08:49, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm actually talking about the subpages (Symposium of Post-mysticism/Kyouko Kasodani for example). ☢ Quwanti 14:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Byakuren[edit]

妖怪寺の魔住職 Magical chief priest of the youkai temple
聖 白蓮 Hijiri Byakuren Byakuren Hijiri
能力        魔法を使う程度の能力(身体能力を上げる魔法を得意とする) Ability: Enough Power to use magic (specializing in magic that increases her physical abilities)
危険度      不明 Threat level: Unknown
人間友好度   中 Human friendship level: Medium
主な活動場所  命蓮寺など Main place of activity: Myouren Temple and so forth
 命蓮寺の住職。元は人間であったが、長年の修行により既に人間を超えている。いわゆる魔法使いの部類に入る。 The chief priest of Myouren Temple. Although she was originally a human, she has already surpassed them from many years of training. So to speak, she is categorized as a magician.
 仏門に入っているが、何故か妖怪から慕われる。おとぎ話のように呪文を唱えて魔を退けたりはしない。聖人づらしているが使う力は邪悪なものであり、人間と敵対する姿は見かけないがあくまでも妖怪の味方である。
 幻想郷に来るまでは人間の手によって魔界に封印されていた。理由は自分達に異なる能力を持っている人間を怖れた、という事であろう。封印を解いたのも彼女を慕う妖怪である。その様な経歴の持ち主故、人間を憎んでいると考える方が自然だ。
 日常は至極真っ当だが、お酒を呑まない、殺生を好まない(肉を食べない)等の戒律により、他の人間と打ち解けにくい(*1)。
 彼女の仕事は、葬式や墓の管理をしたり、弟子に限らず仏法を説いたり、早寝早起きをする事である。中でも月一で行われる、木魚をリズムに抑揚の無い歌を乗せた「夜通し読経ライブ」は、人間、妖怪関わらず注目を浴びている(*2)。
 性格はおっとりとしていて何か頼りなく見える反面、争いを望まない溶解に慕われている。怒っている姿を見せる事は無く、(cont'd on next page)
*1 幻想郷の交流は言うまでもなく酒盛りで行われる。
*2 人気があるという訳では無い。人間には睡眠導入、妖怪には覚醒作用と正反対の効果が認められている。

--Hikaruxz 14:12, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Images[edit]

Ah, shouldn't the images be actually .jpg? Besides, they are not in their optimal resolution from the scans. ☢ Quwanti 14:39, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I ignored some of the poorly scanned onces like Seiga, Murasa, Ichirin. --Hikaruxz 14:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't see any significant differences between png and jpg for pencil sketch like artwork. The only reason I did png was cause the cover was in png. --Hikaruxz 14:49, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


Mononobe no Futo[edit]

古代日本の尸解仙 Shikaisen of ancient Japan
物部 布都 Mononobe no Futo Mononobe no Futo
能力        風水を操る程度の能力 Ability: Enough Power to manipulate feng shui
危険度      低 Threat level: Low
人間友好度   不明 Human friendship level: Unknown
主な活動場所  人間の里等 Main place of activity: Human Village and so forth
長い間、自分自身に呪いをかけて眠っていた古代人である。一旦死ぬ事で輪廻転生の輪から外れる、という方法で不老不死の仙人を目指している。実際にはそう上手く行くはずもなく、やはり死神に目を付けられているそうだ。 (insert)
 同じ手段で現代に生きる豊聡耳神子に比べて幻想郷に馴染めていなく、順応性が低いと思われる。それは過去の彼女を見ても窺うことが出来る。生前(?)も、大陸からきた仏教に馴染めず、古来から信仰されていた神道に近い道教にすがったのだ。
 現在も豊聡耳神子に仕えると共に、道教を信仰している、筈だが、行っている術や格好は、まだ何か中途半端に過去の遺物を引きずっているようである。だがしかし、それが彼女の持ち味とも言える。
(insert)
 能力は申し訳程度に風水に関係する物、という言い方をしている(*1)が、彼女のそれは自然信仰という意味で神道のそれと余り変わらない。道教の勉強をする前から身に付けていたものを、そのまま今の能力としている。その為、何処か古くさいのに伝統の重みを感じない。 (insert)
 性格は温厚なのだが、考え方も古代のまま変化していないのか普通の人間とは完全にずれており、その点に置いては仙人らしい風格を持っているとも言える。  現在は豊聡耳神子と行動を共(cont'd on next page) (insert)
*1 能力は自己申請。 (insert)

--Hikaruxz 15:46, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

SoPm Image file name format[edit]

So, using File:SoPm<anything>.jpg/png seems too biased to en side and not thinking of other language, so I suggest the current file format changed to File:ThGK<anything>.jpg/png just like Perfect Memento in Strict Sense which using ThGS<anything> prefix. Feel free to discuss this urgent problem, thanks. - KyoriAsh 16:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, for character images, I followed the Perfect Memento in Strict Sense's character file names. --Hikaruxz 16:54, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
That's great, now that's a problem for MMIP project....... - KyoriAsh 17:04, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
I prefer using subtitles only because of consistency with other print works, and because there is less risk involved with repeated subtitles (as opposed to repeated main titles).
Also, while on the topic of language, I would actually argue that using SoPm is more considerate to languages on our network than GK. It's not only en that uses the subtitle convention, but many other languages too that use the Latin alphabet like French. - Kiefmaster99 23:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Koishi[edit]

閉じた恋の瞳 The Closed Eyes of Love
古明地 こいし Koishi Komeiji
能力        無意識を操る程度の能力 Ability: Ability on the level of manipulating subconsciouness
危険度      不明 Threat level: Unknown
人間友好度   皆無 Human friendship level: None
主な活動場所  不明 Main place of activity: Unknown
 姉のさとりと同じ妖怪、サトリだ。ただし己の心を閉ざし、他人の心を読めなくなったサトリである。 A satori like her older sister Satori; however, she is a satori who had closed her own heart and ability to read the hearts of others.
 心が読めないせいで嫌われる事は無くなったが、自分の心もすっからかんなので、誰からも好かれなくなってしまった。視界に入らない限り存在感が無い。ややもすれば彼女が目に映っていても、存在していない様に思ってしまうだろう(*1)。視界から消えれば、すぐに忘れ去られてしまう。
 実は昔から地上に出てきたりしていたようだが、誰の目にも映っていなかったようだ。姉のさとりの存在に触れ、ようやく妹のこいしも認識されるようになった。
 姉とは異なり動物からも好かれていない。嫌われてもいない。そんなこいしだが、姉には心配されているようだ。心の無い彼女は姉からも見えないようだが、それでも姉の心から消えることは無かったのである。
 そんな彼女の性格は空っぽで、姉と同様、コミュニケーションを取る事が難しい。
 無意識 Subconsciouness
彼女は自分で考えて行動するというよりは、その場のノリで行動することが多い。
右手を挙げられるように、彼女の行動は全て無意識で行われているのだ。その為、他人のみならず、本人ですら次に何をするのか判らない。
欲望に忠実に生きている訳でも無い。そもそも欲望すら無いと思われる。風に舞う布きれのように、ただ流されるままに生きているようだ。
無意識は修行を積んだ僧侶ですら会得するのが難しいという。しかし、彼女みたいになる事が良い事なのだろうか。その辺を命蓮寺の僧侶達に聞いてみたいものだ。
彼女を慕う者
好かれも嫌われもしない、そんな彼女だが一部に彼女を慕う者もいるらしい。
複雑な人間関係を構築していない、子供とは話が合うようだ。
大人には見えず、一部の子供にだけ見える妖怪。子供の頃は一緒に遊んだりしたのに、大人になるとその存在をすっかり忘れてしまう、そんな経験は無いだろうか(*2)。
彼女の事は『空想上の友達(イマジナリーコンパニオン)』と呼ばれている。こいしはまさしくその、空想上の友達その物だ。
対策 Countermeasures
危険性は不明である。 Threat level is unknown.
彼女を見かけても何をするでも無いし、対策も必要ないと思われる。 It looks like she doesn't do anything, thus counterplan is unnecessary.
しかし刺激する事だけは止めよう。万が一、妖怪さとりとして復活するような事があっても、誰も得をしないからである。
*1 路傍の石ころの様な存在である。
*2 私には無い。

I changed "enough power" to "ability", because it sounded little weird. Michał 17:42, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

You might see this or this. ☢ Quwanti 18:08, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Adding to pages[edit]

We might add those partially articles already to their corresponding pages, as this talk page otherwise gets too big if we are going to add every page here. ☢ Quwanti 17:30, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

(Italics = still needs translation) (bold = Still needs transcription) (! = needs both)

    • pg. 148-150: Seiga Kaku NEEDS BETTER IMAGE, as the current one looks different from the original with thicker lines and such
    • pg. 151-152: Yoshika Miyako NEEDS BETTER IMAGE, as the current one looks different from the original with thicker lines and such

Quwanti 21:22, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Updated page statuses completely as of this time/date, this time of the translation statuses--ReiKusanagi (talk) 10:28, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

--Hikaruxz 17:44, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Interview[edit]

There's a translation for the the interview at http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=yci5c9o4sux9pa1gajmuooqm&page=2603#65070. I'd insert it myself, but I don't know how to format it.--Hylarn 04:11, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Totally Scanned[edit]

I can't attest to its quality as a whole, and something better may come along, but have at it. Here, too. U❊T❊W 16:04, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Page titles for newspaper articles[edit]

Put simply, I don't think that the "/Bunbunmaru Newspaper 1" format is very good compared to the "/Articles/Kyouko and Mystia" format, since among other things it makes it a lot harder to search for a given character's article. However, I want some more opinions before changing all the articles, which I intend to do later tonight or tomorrow. Arcorann 10:45, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

However, I do not really know yet what those articles are about, but in some articles it might be about another subject then the character appearing in the image. Then it isn't logical to add that character in the title, since that character isn't even the subject. ☢ Quwanti 10:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Having skimmed all of the articles I can assure you that this is not a problem, except possibly for Kisume. Arcorann 11:30, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
then still prefer just "Symposium of Post-mysticism/Kyouko and Mystia news report" or something, without the "/Articles/" part. Because what information should "Symposium of Post-mysticism/Articles" hold then? We might then as well use "Symposium of Post-mysticism/Profiles/Nitori Kawashiro" for character profiles then. ☢ Quwanti 11:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
I'll accept that, so long as it includes the names of the characters. I'd rather have the article designation as a prefix though. Arcorann 05:27, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm still pushing for a change by the way (having to look at the main SoPm page every time I want to find a given article is getting to be too much of a pain). Are there any other proposals for article titles? Arcorann 03:49, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Seeing some of the translations I am again, against the use of characters in the name. It would be much wiser to actually use the subject of the article, rather than the characters themselves. as it would be rather misleading then. ☢ Quwanti 16:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Since the subjects tend to focus on just one or two characters, I don't think using the names would be too misleading. And I agree that using the names would be more convenient, especially for the navbox. As for suggestions, either "/Articles/X" or "/X's Article" works for me. Ibaraki Ibuki (talk) 02:40, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Is there any hint as to when this Symposium takes place?[edit]

I ask as I'm thinking about adding the dates of the articles to the timeline and possible the event if possible. --ReiKusanagi 05:11, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Some time after December 4th, 2011, which is the latest date of the newspaper articles. I'd say it's probably around January, as that's when the book was originally supposed to come out. --Hylarn 05:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Ah thanks, though I checked the timeline and saw some of the articles and the symposium there were posted. I'll list the currently posted articles for future reference.--ReiKusanagi 05:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Update: I added all articles, though I'd like someone to do a once over on the timeline to correct any possible minor mistakes (such as how much of the article's headline to include)