Talk:Symposium of Post-mysticism/Interview

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Regarding Yorihime[edit]

There's a sentence here I don't quite understand:


The 降ろす神様が強い分だけ強くなれる part makes no sense to me. Can anyone clarify what this means? Darkslime 16:55, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I'd say "she becomes stronger to the extent of the summoned god's strengh", if that sounds alright. --Higan 16:00, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Regarding "Senrigan"[edit]

I really don't want to start an edit war, but I don't think it matters what Momiji's power is described as in her profile, the simple fact is that the word ZUN is using in this interview means "clairvoyance". Maybe he defines clairvoyance in his own idiosyncratic way, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. If someone reads this interview, thinks "oh she has clairvoyance?" and then looks up her MoF profile to discover that it really means she can see 1000 ri, then that's exactly the same experience the Japanese readers would have. Which I kind of assumed was the point of translation? I don't think it's our job to "fix" ZUN's words for him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarste (talkcontribs) 05:23, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia, 透视 is clairvoyance, however 千里眼 is not clairvoyance. you have to know that Senrigan is derived from Chinese word and it means the person can see as far as, well, 1000 . Your "clairvoyance" word doesn't mean that because clairvoyance means "see through" but not "see as far as you can", hope this will clarify. (AND I KNOW SEVERAL WANTS ME TO DEFINE IN JAPANESE RATHER IN CHINESE, BUT THE WORD'S ORIGIN IS FROM XI YOU JI!) KyoriAsh 05:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
The meanings of words change over time, so I really, absolutely, 100% do not care what it means in Chinese. I looked it up several Japanese-English dictionaries and it means "clairvoyance". The other word you supplied doesn't seem to be a Japanese word at all, in that it uses characters that do not exist in Japanese (although perhaps there are equivalents). I'll also note that the English word clairvoyance can refer to both seeing through things or seeing over long distances. However, looking it up on Japanese wikipedia, 千里眼 does seem to be used exclusively for seeing 1000 里. So I'll drop the matter. I really hope Chinese isn't being used to guide the translations in other areas though.--Clarste 06:10, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
However, Japanese and Chinese meaning are the same, no matter how you DON'T CARE WHAT MEANING IN CHINESE, because Senrigan is ACTUALLY borrowed from Chinese, in terms of meaning, not only in word. KyoriAsh 06:55, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Additional notes: although Wikipedia state the differences with Senrigan and 透视 in zh wikipedia or ja wikipedia, however in general translation are the same: using Clairvoyance as en-ja or en-zh translation. Asked several friends, they said Senrigan means clairvoyance with a long distance (Since senri). - KyoriAsh 07:01, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm not going to research the etymology of every single Japanese word just to see if it came from Chinese and if so how recently and how faithfully. Japanese borrows lots of words. From Chinese, from English, from German, whatever. However, borrowed words are still words, and what matters is what they mean in the language that's being used. Japanese says tons of things that are technically English but make no sense at all in English. I would translate those by what they mean in Japanese, not what the English word is. So even if by complete coincidence this word happens to mean the same thing in Chinese, I still don't care. And neither should you. Because it's irrelevant. Anyway, through the Japanese wikipedia we've settled this particular issue.--Clarste 12:17, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

You two need to cool it. Goo's Japanese dictionary defines 千里眼 as such:


"the ability to see to faraway places and things in the near future, or to see things that are hidden; or a person with such ability"

An English dictionary defines clairvoyance as such:

"the supernatural power of seeing objects or actions removed in space or time from natural viewing"

Faraway things, future events, and hidden things are all included in this definition, in my opinion. Using the word "clairvoyance" strikes me as being absolutely A-OK. The use of 千里眼 strikes me as just something cool ZUN did. And like other things, the origin of the word 千里眼 is not really relevant to her actual abilities, but it is still somewhat relevant(hey, ZUN didn't just say 透視), and should only be put into detail in Momiji's character page(or the ability page). ...or whoever had that power. Darkslime 15:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a translator myself, but I'm at the point where I can pay attention to the translations others use. This wiki wouldn't be the first translation source to go with "clairvoyance" as a translation of "senrigan" - fansub groups working on both Mirai Nikki (specifically "Senrigan Nikki", or "Clairvoyance Diary") and Tiger & Bunny (a lyric in the first opening) did the same. Both times the translation seemed to fit just fine. So there's precedent, I guess. Tunoddenrub 17:24, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Concerning ZUN's remark about Kisume[edit]

Would it be possible to somehow put in footnote or such that the "I don't know what she normally does" part has more weight than "I'd think she'd be brutal"? There have been various people taking the remark the wrong way, some of which intentionally as it suits their needs.

On Momij's Telegnosis and '1000 li vision'[edit]

Looking at this after looking at Momiji's page and her ability being listed there and in the trivia I'm wondering where exactly the '1000 li vision' comes from that we're using in that article came from as well I'm looking at the non-translated side and I'm not seeing no parenthesis which makes me thinks its a translator not but when I ran that sentence through machine translation it came out as clairvoyance and checking the individual kanji it does come out as literally being '1000 ri vision' I'm not sure if we should be taking this as being a statement of range or just a result of deconstruction of base Kanji being misconstrued as a statement of range. Maybe a clarification is in order as I'm a bit curious about this Zelinko (talk) 01:34, 19 December 2012 (EST)