• Welcome to Touhou Wiki!
  • Registering is temporarily disabled. Check in our Discord server to request an account and for assistance of any kind.

Talk:Touhou Fugyouseki/Enemies

From Touhou Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Koakuma and Daiyosei

They are not intended to be the actual characters. They are simply meant to be "small demons" and "great fearies." This becomes more and more obvious as you progress through the game and there are recolors of the enemies. There are six different varations of standard enemy types.

Eh, well you never know, since the characters like Rumia, Cirno, and Letty were included as actual characters but not the midbosses. Oh well. DemonicHobo (talk) 19:44, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Enemy Stats

Enemy stats seem to grow much the same as character stats (base value and per level value). Will look more into it when someone gets the actual names for all the enemies (my japanese skills hardly exist). For now, here's a list of enemies taken from STATIONED.txt

  • 1512: 怠惰な大妖精 (Lazy Great Fairy)
  • 1513: 怠惰な小悪魔 (Lazy Small Demon)
  • 1514: 怠惰な妖精 (Lazy Fairy)
  • 1515: 怠惰な盾妖精 (Lazy Shield Fairy)
  • 1516: 怠惰な杖妖精 (Lazy Mage Fairy)
  • 1517: 怠惰な毛玉 (Lazy Kedama)
  • 1518: 怠惰なメイド妖精 (Lazy Fairy Maid)
  • 1519: 怠惰な人魂 (Lazy Spirit)
  • 1520: 怠惰な餅つき兎 (Lazy Rabbit)
  • 1521: 普通のバク (Normal Tapir)
  • 1522: 普通の大妖精 (Normal Great Fairy)
  • 1523: 普通の小悪魔 (Normal Small Demon)
  • 1524: 普通の妖精 (Normal Fairy)
  • 1525: 普通の盾妖精 (Normal Shield Fairy)
  • 1526: 普通の杖妖精 (Normal Mage Fairy)
  • 1527: 普通の毛玉 (Normal Kedama)
  • 1528: 普通のメイド妖精 (Normal Fairy Maid)
  • 1529: 普通の人魂 (Normal Spirit)
  • 1530: 普通の餅つき兎 (Normal Rabbit)
  • 1531: 交通安全のバク (Tapir of Road Safety) [decreases movement by 1 (does stack)] (has a crosswalk pattern)
  • 1532: 熟練の大妖精 (Skilled Great Fairy)
  • 1533: 熟練の小悪魔 (Skilled Small Demon)
  • 1534: 熟練の妖精 (Skilled Fairy)
  • 1535: 熟練の盾妖精 (Skilled Shield Fairy)
  • 1536: 熟練の杖妖精 (Skilled Mage Fairy)
  • 1537: 熟練の毛玉 (Skilled Kedama)
  • 1538: 熟練のメイド妖精 (Skilled Fairy Maid)
  • 1539: 熟練の人魂 (Skilled Spirit)
  • 1540: 熟練の餅つき兎 (Skilled Rabbit)
  • 1541: 健康祈願のバク (Tapir of Healing) [heals fully every turn] (has a heart pattern)
  • 1542: 精鋭の大妖精 (Elite Great Fairy)
  • 1543: 精鋭の小悪魔 (Elite Small Demon)
  • 1544: 精鋭の妖精 (Elite Fairy)
  • 1545: 精鋭の盾妖精 (Elite Shield Fairy)
  • 1546: 精鋭の杖妖精 (Elite Mage Fairy)
  • 1547: 精鋭の毛玉 (Elite Kedama)
  • 1548: 精鋭のメイド妖精 (Elite Fairy Maid)
  • 1549: 精鋭の人魂 (Elite Spirit)
  • 1550: 精鋭の餅つき兎 (Elite Rabbit)
  • 1551: 誇大妄想のバク (____ Tapir) [will shield all magical damage]
  • 1552: 幻想の大妖精 (Fake Great Fairy)
  • 1553: 幻想の小悪魔 (Fake Small Demon)
  • 1554: 幻想の妖精 (Fake Fairy)
  • 1555: 幻想の盾妖精 (Fake Shield Fairy)
  • 1556: 幻想の杖妖精 (Fake Mage Fairy)
  • 1557: 幻想の毛玉 (Fake Kedama)
  • 1558: 幻想のメイド妖精 (Fake Fairy Maid)
  • 1559: 幻想の人魂 (Fake Spirit)
  • 1560: 幻想の餅つき兎 (Fake Rabbit)
  • 1561: 現実逃避のバク (___ Tapir) [will shield all physical damage] (black with blue stars)
  • 1562: 睡夢の大妖精 (Dream Great Fairy)
  • 1563: 睡夢の小悪魔 (Dream Small Demon)
  • 1564: 睡夢の妖精 (Dream Fairy)
  • 1565: 睡夢の盾妖精 (Dream Shield Fairy)
  • 1566: 睡夢の杖妖精 (Dream Mage Fairy)
  • 1567: 睡夢の毛玉 (Dream Kedama)
  • 1568: 睡夢のメイド妖精 (Dream Fairy Maid)
  • 1569: 睡夢の人魂 (Dream Spirit)
  • 1570: 睡夢の餅つき兎 (Dream Rabbit)
  • 1571: 投擲禁止のバク (Tapir of Range Ban) [limits range to 1] (has a target pattern)
  • 1572: 不老不死のバク (Immortal Tapir) [will shield all damage] (completely white)
  • 1573: 電光石火のバク
  • 1574: 妄想主義のバク (Tapir of Delusion) [disables physical attacks]
  • 1575: 現実主義のバク (Tapir of Realism) [disables magical attacks] (blue with yellow stars)
  • 1576: 鈴仙の幻影
Have you got higher resolution pictures of the enemies than http://puu.sh/1LNMa or shall I use these? DemonicHobo (talk) 19:47, 9 January 2013 (EST)
That's as good as it gets (unit.bmp). Their "power level" is color coded... and is almost in order on that image. Lazy is blue, Normal is green, Skilled is red, Elite is purple, Illusion is white, and Dream is black.
Yeah, I ordered them on purpose. What difficulty level are you on in the game? I'm on 145 and the other person editing with us is on 50, I believe. Unfortunately I leveled most of the characters immediately after getting them so I can't get the base stats, just the scaling. Also, I can only find 5 different versions of the rabbits and tapirs in the image dump file. http://puu.sh/1LO2t DemonicHobo (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2013 (EST)
I'm only on 57. You can still get the base stats by taking the growth per level, multiplying it by the current level and subtracting by current amount *unless you've spent items that permanently increase stats* (in which case, if you remember which beads you used, then you can go ahead. They give 10HP or 2 to a stat). Example, if Wriggle is Lv60 her HP is 981; she gets 16HP per level, so her HP would be 21+16*lvl. It's very possible that the rabbits only have 5 variations... or that the dream variation is somewhere else within DATA00 (may be the case since there's over 5 variations of tapirs and rabbits according to the text file). I consider the tapirs non-standard because it seems their variations depend on their field effects. Omonomous (talk) 20:17, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Alright, theres a table and some basic information about every enemy, that should suffice until we can get more specific stats. I'll play tonight and record movement and ranges at least. How does the table suit you? DemonicHobo (talk) 20:27, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Need to be consistent with the Character page, so we need to settle for "Evasion" or "Dodge" for 回避; imo, we should stick with "Evasion". Same with "Resist" over "magic defense" since the game doesn't use 魔法防御. Damage type should be somewhere, possibly in the description of the creep above the table. Though irrelevant, it may be nice to include enemy's Talent stat.Omonomous (talk) 20:36, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Until we're 100% sure that theres only 5 types of Inaba/Usagi/Earth Rabbits/Whateverwe'redecidingtocallthem I'm going to hold off on uploading them. DemonicHobo (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (EST)

HP values seem to have some sort of random variable. Other stats seem consistent. Will look more into it when I unlock all enemy types. Omonomous (talk) 22:03, 9 January 2013 (EST)

You could just use my save file. I get 6 enemies on the field every turn. DemonicHobo (talk) 22:37, 9 January 2013 (EST)
No, thank you. May take me a bit, but I dislike using other people's save files. Omonomous (talk) 23:56, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Missing icons

As far as rabbit hair colors are concerned: Blue=Lazy, Yellow=Normal, Red=Skilled, Pink=Elite (that's what I saw in Tewi's stage when recruiting her). There must be another icon file somewhere which contains another rabbit icon in DATA00 since 現実主義のバク's model is a blue tapir with yellow stars, and 不老不死のバク are completely white (http://i.imgur.com/ieF8Q.png). Omonomous (talk) 4:44, 10 January 2013 (EST)

Tapir Names

From left to right (on image): of Healing [full heal after turn], of Road Safety [-1 move], Normal [charges forward], \Deluded (誇大妄想), [Reasonable](現実逃避)\, of Range Ban [range to 1], Immortal [mighty], of Delusion [limits physical], of Realism [limits magic]
in \\ unsure which is which of these two.

Concern:
Particularly about 現実逃避; this is specifically about the mental condition of escapism. This isn't well translated to "Escapist" or "of Escapism", however, since that mostly implies Escape Artist. I used "Reasonable" since it goes well with since "of Realism" 現実主義. Both deal with reality(現実); 現実主義 deals with the idea of reality whereas 現実逃避 with the disorder of escaping reality (which is ofc not "reasonable"). 現実逃避 could be of course be translated as deluded, but that would be redundant with the other tapir that has an immunity. As such, I took complete freedom with this one... a lot more freedom than changing "Stick Fairy" to "Mage Fairy", in any case.
妄想主義 and 誇大妄想 go hand in hand with "Deluded" and "of Delusion" since both deal with 妄想; 妄想主義 with the idea of Delusion whereas 誇大妄想 is another mental condition which deals with a sort of mania which is essentially narcissism (high overconfidence). Translation of these two are completely fine, only 現実逃避 is a problem if we choose not to take freedom with its "translation" (more like localization at this point, I suppose). --Omonomous (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2013 (EST)

"Megalomania" for "誇大妄想", perhaps? Google translate says exactly that, and it does fit the definition you gave. -- Qazmlpok (talk) 15:02, 23 January 2013 (EST)
Doable, but then we'd have people rushing to wikipedia to figure out just what that means which is probably not the circle's intention (reading 誇大妄想 without any knowledge of the disorder can easily lead to understanding the word from "overdone delusion"). I'll leave the overall decision up to you since you edit the wiki mostly; just be sure to update the person on pooshlmer that's doing the image edits.
That would be me, actually. I'll try and get a second opinion on the translations as well. -- Qazmlpok (talk) 15:22, 23 January 2013 (EST)
The two tapir in question are what I dubbed Physical Guard and Magical Guard, correct? Delusion and Realism don't immediately register as having to do anything with physical or magical attacks or guarding them, same with the tapir of delusion and realism. Perhaps we should instead localize the names instead of a direct translation. -- DemonicHobo (talk) 15:29, 23 January 2013 (EST)
Heck, what about Ethereal and Corporeal? Sounds uncommon but still conveys what the tapir does. -- DemonicHobo (talk) 15:32, 23 January 2013 (EST)
Names are half-irrelevant, so a complete name change isn't something I'm completely against for those two. The concept of reality and delusion should be kept intact for the global limits, though, since the intention is "While the concept of reality is on the field, deluded (fantasy-inspired) attacks like magic aren't allowed" and vice-versa. --Omonomous (talk) 15:41, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Here's a summary of what I was told:

They are mostly named after mental states
誇大妄想のバク Megalomaniac Tapir would work  Other options Grandiose Tapir, Self Aggrandizing Tapir
妄想主義のバク- Delusional Tapir, or Nonsensical Tapir.   "physical moves don't work on it because it's too nonsensical! etc"
現実逃避のバク- I wouldn't use reasonable.   Tapir of denial, Withdrawn Tapir
現実主義のバク could be realistic Tapir, Tapir of Realism,. Non-nonsense Tapir or Rational Tapir     Rational tapir might be nice with nonsensical tapir 
投擲禁止のバク Well literally it's 'tapir of throwing bans    Grounded Tapir, No-Fly-Zone Tapir, Projectile Rejection Tapir 

Gonna go with "Grandiose Tapir", "Nonsensical Tapir", "Withdrawn Tapir", "Rational Tapir", and stick with "Range ban" for the last. He also suggested "Mallet rabbit" to go with the [equipment] [name] theme with the shield fairy and staff fairy. I haven't decided if I'll change back from "guard" and "mage" or not. -- Qazmlpok (talk) 19:20, 23 January 2013 (EST)

The two with global bans 妄想主義のバク, and 現実主義のバク deal with the overall concept of reality and delusion (主義); English equivalent of this is "-ism", "The Idea of", or "The Concept of". Completely different from mental states; they are quite literally referring to the overall concept. The Tapir of Delusion is not technically immune to physical strikes; it merely disables physical strikes from being used since it puts the field in a state of delusion (magic). They are not of a (self-imposed) mindset; they are of a (globally-accepted) concept.
The two with immunities 現実逃避 and 誇大妄想 deal with mental states, which make for translation/localization issues since the idea doesn't come across when using technical terms. The circle chose to keep 現実 and 妄想 to keep the theme of reality and delusion, but this time referring to the tapir themselves. Reality avoiding (Escapist), overdone/overpowering delusion (Megalomaniac); however, this theme doesn't carry over to English which makes these two (the ones with immunities) tough.
I will back "Mallet Rabbit" to keep with [equipment] [name] theme. I really like that, especially since mochi is beaten with a mallet. --Omonomous (talk) 22:05, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Small Demon vs. Little Devil

I was using Little Devil because the enemy seemed to be an obvious reference to Koakuma, just like the Greater Fairies are an obvious reference to Daiyousei. I can't read Japanese but I'm going to assume the name is literally Small Demon. Which one are we going to use? -- DemonicHobo (talk) 20:21, 2 February 2013 (EST)

From my understanding, both are legitimate translations. "Little Devil" is one that I've seen used before, and I personally prefer it, so that's what I'm going with. It's also the name meaning listed on the wiki (Koakuma), and it also goes with the "Scarlet Devil Mansion". -- Qazmlpok (talk) 21:03, 2 February 2013 (EST)