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Talk:Touhou Hisoutensoku

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A better name for the subtitle

"Lacking Perception of the Natural Laws of the East" or "Lacking Perception of the Rule of Heaven in the East" ~ Chase the Enigma of the Superdreadnought Guignol"

It's all rather literal, and ugly. Guignol is a puppet in france, while "Unknowing of the world" is what I gather from the first part of the sentence, an English equivalant that I think would invoke some paralells would be something like "Chase of the unknowing Pinocchio" or "Puppet who lacks knowlegde of the world" --Everspace 20:36, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

For similar reasons we don't translate names, no attempt should be made to replace "Guignol". That would be undue warping of the author's original intent. That would also apply similarly to Alice's Last Word. At most, a TL note would be justified. - Kiefmaster99 02:40, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

It's true that 弩級 is a word that came from the English battleship dreadnought, but in modern Japanese it has changed to only indicate the idea of "extraordinary large". Doesn't it make more sense for the English speaking readers to change it to "Chase the Enigma of the Super Gaint Guignol"?--Doncot (talk) 18:03, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

"Colossal" or "Titantic" then? Or "Chase the Enigma of the Gargantuan Guignol" for alliterative appeal. --Prime32 (talk) 18:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
I prefer "super giant" since it's the most literal, but all should work.--Doncot (talk) 18:24, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, given that we're choosing a word based on meaning extraordinarily large, I like gargantuan best. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 14:00, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Netplay Compatibility with Windows 7?

I've heard of a person who can play this title otherwise fine on Windows 7, but evidently, the netplay function has some kind of issue(s). He'd first had Windows XP, and this game and its netplay ran without issues, but ever since he upgraded to Win7, he can't seem to get netplay to work right. I run on XP myself, so I can't provide any answers - hence why I ask here. I'm going to speak some more with the guy who's having the issues and see if I can procure any more detailed information as to exactly what's going on, and maybe see if I can get some system specs (as those could always have something to do with such problems, and more often than not are at least a contributing cause). --AceOfHeartsDX 23:19, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

I have Window's 7 on my Laptop, and all i did was get an external hardrive, like a usb, and transferred into my laptop, and it works fine

Imperative Note

Unthinkable Natural Law is wrong. Do not continue to use or condone the usage of this alliteration. Hisou Tensoku is but a name of the large action figure seen in the opening title page. Please change any abbreviations that use Unthinkable Natural Law, and continue to remove this improper usage from the wiki. The preceding comment was written by 10:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Then, what do you think for the best solution after erasing it? At least, that translation of the title is very suitable and appropriate for the story and the title itself: Tensoku wo Omohu ni Arazu (not considering the Rule from the Heaven). Hmm, I don't know what other people think. --Masuo64 11:09, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
So lets make the pages confusing for the newcomer by using HT, that never before was mentioned, instead? Way to go.--Umhyuk 15:25, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
No, stop. It's not a title. It's his name. We do not translate Reimu into Spirit Dream. It's improper and simply wrong. By continuing to perpetuate wrong in the wiki I will have to question your ethics and understanding of what a wiki is about. This is a place for proper and concise knowledge, please do not bring in personal opinions.The preceding comment was written by 16:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Please tell *what* is the best solution for you after abandoning it. "Touhou Hisoutensoku" is the essencial part of title. All eEditors know it, of course. But they have no idea to find it doesn't contain English words in title like previous works. If original Japanese name is adopted, the reformation of many many many many pages, and wiki users will be puzzled not to understand it. It remains until now. A similar problem is solved to translate it as "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" or "IotMaIofE". It's because editors have normally called them in English part of title. Not only editors of this wiki, but also most Touhou fans in English site. Even if this wiki abandons English name, other normal Touhou fans must continue to call them in English. Gap. So calling Hisoutensoku has also its problem.
Honestly speaking, I have been once confused to find the names called in English words or abbreviation. But why they call it like that isn't that they're official names, but that they're in English, easier to use.
It's not the problem of editing wiki, but that between traditional translation culture & modern transcription culture. At least the former is neither dead nor invalid.
Anyway, what I want to say is; The name of this archive is "Touhou Hisoutensoku". This is the official name of the th12.3 work, contains only Japanese words, and implies a storyline. Almost best translation is "Unthinkable Natural Law". It isn't official, People must know it. But it doesn't mean that they should call it strictly in official Japanese name when it seems uneasy to memorize in brain or input on the keyboard. --Masuo64 18:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I have to throw in support for UNL as well. It's short, succinct, not terribly off base, useful as an acronym, and already widely used as an English equivalent. Unless more opposition materializes, it's in all likeliness going to stay as "Unthinkable Natural Law" or "UNL" similar to "SWR", "PCB" or "EoSD". I personally wish it could be "HTS" but it ain't going to happen. : ) TheTrueBlue 03:19, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
A lie repeated 100 times doesn't make it the truth. The argument "already widely used as an English equivalent" is invalid because exactly this wiki tried to pass of Unthinkable Natural Law as an official title from the beginning an got that many (how many?) people to use it. If you continue to spread the use of this non-literal translation, you must make it clear to every reader of the page that this is only a fan-originated name. If you want to abbreviate it's name, you can do as tasofro and call it th123, or "HTS" as mentioned above (or not abbreviate it all all on the wiki, because wikis should always use full names).AoA 11:17, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
There are other sites like Gensokyo.org where use of UNL is already prevalent. Plus the precedent is for the English letter abbreviation to stand for English words, e.g. Perfect Cherry Blossom, Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. But I'm staying on the fence here, this isn't something I'll argue over, it's up to you guys here. TheTrueBlue 18:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
People use UNL because it's English, and it's a concise acronym. It's already clear that the name is fan-originated since the TL is in parentheses and the fact that the official title has similar status as its subtitle. The same logic is followed for 月のイナバと地上の因幡 (Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth). The only compelling argument I've heard that would warrant a change is that Hisou Tensoku is a name, but even then some people would still prefer plain English. To erase a TL would be unacceptable, though I have less a problem if you want to replace "Unthinkable Natural Law" on the front page with "Touhou Hisoutensoku", or on any other page referencing this game. I'd have "HTS" or "12.3" or "Hisoutensoku" redirect to the page, but I don't know how to do that.Kiefmaster99 18:47, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Redirect pages except 12.3 has been done. - KyoriAsh 19:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for dumm question, but HTS seems an acronym of Hisoutensoku; tensoku seems a picking up a first letter of each kanji while Hisou doesn't. Why is it HTS, not HSTS? Because it's a little long? --Masuo64 19:52, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Whatever acronym you guys decide on, just make sure you properly introduce it to the reader, rather than spew it around with no proper mention on the TH12.3 page like the first anon did.--Umhyuk 19:58, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Because it's group read Hisou Tensoku, not Hi Sou Ten Soku, it's "Faulty Perceptions" + "Rule of Heaven" or "Faulty Perceptions" + "Natural Laws" Hisou is one thing, but the Ten and Soku are each important enough to be one letter apiece (is my linguistic gut feeling anyway). And none of the previous English acryonyms have repeated letters, and HSTS seems more clumsy, and HTS does the job so why add another letter? Etc. Just my 2 cents. TheTrueBlue 19:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
PoDD, LLS, SSiB, PMiSS. jpp8 20:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Well the 2 that are games there are pre-EoSD, probably why they didn't occur to me. It's completely up to you guys. TheTrueBlue 20:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, sorry, my reason isn't at your level, TheTrueBlue. I can't see but: since Hisoutensoku is made to be combined with this, Ten + Soku (The Highest + Rule, or the Natural Law), Sou + Tensoku (Perceive Tensoku, or Perception of Tensoku), Hi + Soutensoku (Not Soutensoku, or No Soutensoku). So if we regard Tensoku as one word, we may shorten it for one alphabet of it. And I first think that it's a little more reasonable to see Hi + Sou + Tensoku and abbreviate HST, or to divide their letter for HSTS. And it's not essential, but "Faulty Perception" is less better than "Not Perceiving" (literally) or "No Perception" (meaning), I think, because Hisoutensoku can't think. "Faulty Perception" is "Gosoutensoku" (誤想天則). --Masuo64 06:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
非想天則, indeed hisou is not a compound I've ever seen, 非 being fault, error, mistake, done poorly, disadvantageous, unfavorable, I think "faulty" is not terribly off base. Is this your intuition as a native speaker of Japanese? I'm not aware if you are or not.
In reading from left to right, I first see "faulty perception", then of the "Tensoku". How about "Misconstrued Perceptions of the Natural Law/Rule of Heaven in the East" ? Or "Distorted Perceptions..." ? Or "Mistaken Perceptions..." ? Or "Dubious Perceptions..." ? Or "Apocryphal"? "Questionable" ? "Amaurotic" ? "Typhlotic" ? "Uncertain" ? "Flawed" ?
Anyway, I've already declared my neutrality in this issue, any of the terms above for the name and either HTS or HSTS is fine with me. TheTrueBlue 07:19, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks to the English patch, I've played through Sanae's story, and have now personally come to the conclusion based on Sanae's conversations with Suwako that the "incorrect" title, "Unthinkable Natural Law," is not necessarily incorrect in its meaning, in and of itself; it is grammatically incorrect: the word "by" should be in the phrase, as such: "Unthinkable by Natural Law", a context in which Suwako describes the giant in question. I'm not necessarily saying it's the best-sounding solution (it still sounds weird to me as a game title, despite being technically correct), I'm just putting it out there to make you guys aware of it. Also, for the record, I believe that all the people who said that the prevalence of usage of an improper phrase does not make it correct, and I have corrected many people on such issues in the past. However, I do not currently believe "UNL"/"Unthinkable (by) Natural Law" to be wholly improper, and therefore I don't feel a need to correct people on it. However, as I stated, it still sounds weird, so if anyone does some digging and discovers another official, more reasonable-sounding substitute, I am open for debate. AceOfHeartsDX 19:25, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
My Summary: There's a lot of random thinking here and it's hard to sort through it all, and of course it's late in the game, but since I don't see a much of a conclusion here overall, I'd like to point out for the sake of thoroughness that Hi can be used as a prefix to mean faulty/non, which is applied to Sou ("thought"), hence "Unthinkable." Tensoku is in the dictionary as "Rule of Heaven" or "Natural Law," and I would actually consider it to be "Rule of Heaven," at least etymology-wise, considering that fits both previous alternatives logically into one idea. However, this is a name of a character, and I think there should at the very least be a note to express that (without giving anything away). Yes, it is likely that grammatically that UNL translation should probably include "by" as Suwako explains why she used "Hisou" as a name. But really, I think that to be informative and helpful, with the fact that Hisou Tensoku is a name above all else, it should be made clear immediately, and is irresponsible to do otherwise, regardless of precedent. Wiki is not meant to perpetuate obfuscation of the truth, but rather to clarify and inform. This is why a translation of Hisou Tensoku is fine, but it should not receive undue attention, just as Reimu's name shouldn't, even if it appeared in a title.
Also, if there was to be an abbreviation, I see no legitimate reason to call it anything but HT. And yes, SWR's Hisouten is a different Hi, scarlet, so that probably has nothing to do with anything here other than wordplay. I'd be glad to hear any (supported by knowledge in Japanese) theories though. I also am against making it one big word Hisoutensoku, as I think evidence suggests it's 2 words, and it also is much easier to remember and read. You don't put Touhouhisoutensoku, naturally. But perhaps just as a redirect, as there is little way to be 100% sure and it's already set up as one word. This is a shame though. --StrikerX22 22:00, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by the name receiving undue attention. Right now, like any other game page (including Touhou Youyoumu), the page just mentions a TL (and one long enough to be impractical to recall) so the article is fine as is, with regards to title translation. Any expansion on the etymology of "Hisoutensoku" could go either a) bottom of article w/ subheading, b) Miscellaneous page, or c) Hisoutensoku page. If you want, a mention of Hisoutensoku himself could be put in the plot summary, which will make it very clear that Hisoutensoku is a name.
With regards to the splitting of the word "Hisoutensoku", it may have just been based off of the similar word "Gakutensoku". Unless most translators agree that "Hisou Tensoku" is more appropriate, that probably won't change. - Kiefmaster99 00:26, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not expecting anything in terms of word splitting, but I also did not know of the existence of such a reference. I'd say it's highly likely that it's based off that, since Zun takes from everything in that manner. If Gakutensoku's translation is considered accurate, then perhaps the "rule by heaven" version of the translation should be taken out, since it's very much taking up space and is relatively unnecessary. It also makes less sense in the context of Suwako's explanation. What I meant by undue attention is that instead of translating the Hisoutensoku part of the title, it should instead receive a ref note, translating the name there (since there is no reason to translate a name in the title), and making a quick mention of Hisoutensoku being a character, preferably after the title, but at least in said note.
東方非想天則 ~ 超弩級ギニョルの謎を追え (romanized: Touhou Hisoutensoku ~ Choudokyuu Ginyoru no Nazo wo Oe, lit. "Touhou Hisoutensoku[ref|Hisoutensoku] ~ Chase the Enigma of the Superdreadnought Guignol") is a standalone expansion pack to the fighting spinoff Scarlet Weather Rhapsody with five new [playable] characters, first released by Tasogare Frontier at Comiket 76.
[note|Hisoutensoku]: Hisoutensoku is the name of a character, with the meaning "lacking perception of the laws of nature" in reference to the real robot Gakutensoku, or "learning from the laws of nature."
On attempting, I figure a note does work best here. I'm sure now isn't much of a time to be saying this, but "Touhou" likely shouldn't be translated as part of the title, and Zun's English titles (which sometimes do somewhat of a translation) don't include references to "Eastern" or the like, save one example, "The Story of Eastern Wonderland," which actually serves to indicate that if he wanted "Eastern," he would've put it in. In 12.3's case, it obviously doesn't make much sense to say either "Eastern Hisoutensoku" or "Lacking Perception of the Natural Laws of the East" (since the "natural laws" are the same everywhere, as opposed to unnatural Gensokyo, hence the robot functioning). Sound reasonable?
--StrikerX22 20:52, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
The translation given on the page right now is literal. If you want, you could add a loose translation ('roughly meaning' or something similar) pending translator approval. I do think that the fact that Hisoutensoku is both a) a name and b) occupies the whole space does present a unique case though. It may also act as a descriptor for the game in general, which further complicates things. I'm not well versed in the Japanese language, so somebody else will have to comment on TL specifics.
The names of ZUNs products are arranged as "Touhou something ~ subtitle" (or recently the reverse). Touhou obviously in reference to the name of the whole endeavor - Touhou Project. Why Touhou? Because it places an emphasis on 'Eastern' or 'Oriental' aspects such as the heavy references to Japan and Japanese mythology. ZUN simply loves making games based on Japan and its folklore. Not very often does he make references to western folklore (as he did in EoSD). Gakutensoku himself is a product of Japanese manufacture. The customary adding of 'Touhou' to every title is an allusion to the whole idea of being eastern. "Eastern Hisoutensoku" would be the next best translation.
Also, the subtitles are generally not meant as a translation to begin with, but rather as some sort of subheading (such as Eastern Three Fairies ~ EaLND/SaBND/OSP/Great Fairy Wars or Eastern Ephemeral Moon Vignette ~ SSiB/CiLR/IotMaIotE). - Kiefmaster99 22:41, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Imperative Note Part 2

The way the new information is presented right now looks incredibly ugly. I should point out that it was not some "random guy" who provided the translation, but a user named Reppu kiri, and not on "day-1 of the game's release", but on July 24, 2009. He stuck in the phrase "meaning Unthinkable Natural Law)" in an honest attempt to provide a translation, as per all the other game pages (meaning blah and blah). This was before it was revealed that Hisoutensoku refers to that giant. I am convinced that‎ cares more about his own agenda than the accuracy of this page. Don't get me started on how more wrong SWRS is. Kiefmaster99 13:51, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I didn't understand what IP 87.69.208 meant, so I edited like that. Your explanation enabled me to take his intend in my brain. And I don't know where UNL appeared first. Did the translation "UNL" really appear here first? If it appeared first here or if people consult this page to use the abbreviation "UNL", the source should be erased. But is it sure? (I'm not challenging you, Simply I don't know it.) --Masuo64 15:10, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
Well, the first instance of Unthinkable Natural Law appearing here was on that date by that person, or so the Revision History says. UNL showed up because people by nature abbreviate stuff. I'm pretty sure that person did the translation (as he contributes to TLs on the wiki), and that the first instance of UNL showing up was here. The TL wasn't challenged until after the game was released. As for the fixes I would make, I would prefer to follow the format as per IotMaIotE and any of the other pages, that is, get rid all acronyms, but keep "Unthinkable Natural Law" as a concise form. Also, why the hell was the literal translation removed? I'm reverting it. Kiefmaster99 16:11, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
Pocket-change-rambling: I find it strange that so many people really decided to cling to "UNL" from the starting gate. If we toss aside the issue of translation for a second: UNL isn't even consistent to the other games' conventions as it's a translation of the main game name and not the secondary "after the ~" name. And then, ZUN didn't provide us with an English secondary name like he has in the past. I do agree with your motion to treat this like works of similar naming manner and not use any acronyms officially, for the wiki at least; Posters using UNL and SWRS and SWR+ in normal conversation don't bother me. In the end acronyms were designed as a memory trick and are in themselves a kind of code that don't need to exactly refer to anything specific if the majority of people understand just what they're referring to.
About this translation dispute going on between anonymous vs. translators et.al. I quote T. Solamarle from MoF Music's talk page, "More correct translations should be preferred over incorrect "established" names." I guess you guys can decide it it's true in this case, because all that ever hits me from these discussions is the clinging to acronyms, and I'm not about to take a stab at translating this myself. Kudos to you translators, Reppu kiri included.
(By the way, when everyone does agree on a translation to the name, the link to it on the main page should probably be changed from saying "(Touhou Hisotensoku)". In fact, being consistent to how the Inaba example is worded on the main page, this would end up being "Chase the Enigma of the Superdreadnought Guignol"? Wow, this is a headache, nevermind.) Kuziko 05:42, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Well in that case, if more correct translations should be preferred over established ones, we have a choice then whether to accept or reject "Unthinkable Natural Law" as an adequate translation. We could simply accept TheTrueBlue's TL as better, and declare UNL as obsolete and simply delete "Unthinkable Natural Law" altogether. The meaning of SWR was changed, and so two music titles were reworked to accommodate that change, even though they were used for a long while, so I have no objections to the deletion on those grounds. Now, seems to have an objection with TheTrueBlue's TL and thinks it's "wrong way of conforming to the gods", but I don't think this takes the 'Samjna' into account. I will leave it up to TheTrueBlue to decide what to do with that opinion.
Besides, we can just leave acronym explanations on the Glossary or something. Kiefmaster99 23:57, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Your reverting appears to be appropriate, Kiefmaster99. Ah, I assumed IP 87.69.208 would show up here, or give an explanation, but he has left nothing. I don't catch his/her intention.
At least, I can't help defending Reppu Kiri because Chinese-original nouns in Japanese base the central meaning on the last free morpheme very frequently, and the manner like reading "非想天則" is strange in everyday usage in Japan, except only in old Chinese text; they changed the pattern of syntax in the Middle Age as it fits them. Normally they would be likely to make the word "天則非想" if they wanted to make the word meaning "not having perception of the heaven's rule". The way of interpration is so restricted in usage that a native Japanese, I, didn't expect such a reading and meaning and he found the deep taste of representation, after watching Sanae's ending. --Masuo64 17:16, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
I'll put this here so non-Japanese speakers can get a feel for where the transliteration is coming from -
非想天則 Hi Sou Ten Soku
非 Hi = Fault, Error, Unfavorable, Un-, Non-, doing poorly
想 Sou = Thought, Idea, Conception, Samjna
天則 Tensoku = Natural Law, the "Rule of Heaven" where 則 soku = model on, follow, based on, modeled after
TheTrueBlue 00:48, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't 則 (Soku) mean plus, since I heard it's meant to be SWR+ But I could be wrong here. But I wished Tasafro would have made it clear with this as to avoid such a mess. --StriderTuna 03:37, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

I can't really comment on whether 'soku' means '+'. What I can say is that SWR+ does convey that 12.3 is an expansion to 10.5, the '+' implying an expansion. My main concern with using SWR to reference 12.3 is the fact that SWR is not used anywhere in the title of 12.3. The only relation of SWR to 12.3 is that 12.3 is an expansion to a game with the English subtitle "Scarlet Weather Rhapsody". But acronyms are just ways to shorten the title, so in the end, I wouldn't fret too much over it. - Kiefmaster99 17:20, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
My japanese dictionary has 則 as a kanji for rule / follow / based on / model after, but has no translation for 則 as a word (except for names).
Also, why are we using "of the East" or "in the East" when all other translations of 東方 in the site use "oriental"? Would "Lacking Perception of the Oriental Natural Laws" or "Lacking Perception of the Oriental Rule of Heaven" be wrong? (which would cause the hilarious acronym of "LPONL") brocoli 15:05, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
(from / in / of) the East TH01, TH04, TH07.5, TH08, TH12
Eastern TH05, TH06, TH07, TH10, TH10.5, TH11
Oriental TH02, TH03, TH09, TH09.5
"East(ern)" is much more common than "oriental" among the game titles. What "all other translations" are you referring to? --TheSinnerChrono 15:33, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
"Oriental", like "Occidental", is no longer widely used. Directional designations are far more common presently, in politics, economics, literature, etc. Only in the case of PoFV I believe and StB was "Oriental" appropriate since those were more past artistic styles (the Mound and the Art Book) implied by such a title. Anyway, terms like "Oriental" are archaic, myopic and should be avoided whenever possible. "Oriental Natural Laws" ? Rofl, are you talking about Turkey? Arabia? Those were historically part of the "Orient" but have nothing to do with Touhou. TheTrueBlue 18:37, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Did anyone think to e-mail ZUN and/or Tasogare Frontier and directly ask them what should be used as an English title? I'd gladly offer to do it myself, but I have no knowledge of Japanese. If an answer could be procured, it would certainly be official, as it'd be coming "directly from the horse's mouth," so to speak, and we could settle this whole argument. --AceOfHeartsDX 03:41, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Whoa come on guys, chill about the "Touhou" meaning blah blah blah stuff, Touhou is literally written out, as "East" and "Way" or "Path", so the literal translation (that makes grammatical sense) would be, in a sense, "The way of the East", except Touhou is more of one word, a single word that uses two kanjis, and if you want to you can translate any Japanese name, usually meaning multiple kanjis, into some phrase... So this is where things get confusing, when do we know something is a title or name that is a compound word of kanjis, and when do we know when something is a phrase in Japanese? Well great question, but this would require more knowledge on the actual language. For example, let's take Reimu for example, her name means "Spirit Dream", because those are the kanjis, or characters used, but in context we use it as a proper noun, or more specifically, a name. "Ano kanojyo no na wa Reimu.", where "Reimu" is used as a proper noun, however when asked, "Well touhou isn't really used in context in a sentence", well you can take my word, as I'm Japanese myself and see both english and Japanese conversations concerning touhou, that I am yet to see someone on a Japanese community go, "Touhou ni ike", which would mean, if we literally translate touhou, "go towards the east way". Of course you'd ask, "well how would WE know that!?" and sad to say, there really isn't any way. This is one of the problems when translating a language that uses characters where each character has its own meaning, and a language that uses symbols that dont mean anything togetherm but when combined, becomes words. Linguistically speaking, this is where why a lot of translations from Japanese to English are so often completely off, or they completely ignore the real title and name it something else, one example that comes to mind is "Kimi ga Nozomu Eien", which should be easy to translate, but the English name is, "Rumble Hearts" (actual title means "The Eternity You Seek")(By the way that's an anime)
Anyways I'm rambling and going off the point here, the main discussion is on Hisoutensoku, and it's translation, and as I said before, Names Should Not Be Translated and you know what that means? Because apparently Hisoutensoku is a NAME (I am yet to actually beat 12.3's story, I always play arcade lol), I would, under my own reasonings, not translate it.
Anyways thats the rather anti-climatic ramblings of some random japanese dude that lives in america... and is a touhou addict ;D ---- Am I doing the editing wrong? 7h3d4rkw0lf

Random info/details

http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/08/03/details-on-touhou-hisoutensoku/ Someone want to try to work this into the article? -- 02:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, only four days left until the game is released. Oh, I can't wait to play Sanae. ^o^ Kirbyfan103 16:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


Looks like Sanae, Cirno and Hong Meirin will be in the game. (source). Looks like Sanae is getting popular... — Poki#3 My Talk Page :o, 10:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps this would belong in a different section but does anyone want to tell me why CIRNO's silhouette is on the cover? I hope they aren't making her a major story character. --Selphos 21:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


How do we know exactly if this game is going to have weather, like in SWR? Fairy Maid 16:57, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Let me see, where is the picture that appeared in Tasofro main page BEFORE Hisoutensoku been officially annouced... alright, here -- KyoriAsh 17:04, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


Perhaps the article should be renamed 東方非想天則 超弩級ギントルの謎を追え, in line with the rest of the articles having the subtitle in the title. Although I dunno if that is a subtitle or not. It should be mentioned in the article at any rate.

Well you can mentioned it, but not the article title (I mean Romanized link) -- KyoriAsh 03:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


I realize that the this game is an expansion of Touhou 10.5 Since it said that if the player that it, he/she can play those characters as well. -Dandan550 07:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

It is an expansion of Touhou 10.5, but also can be play as stand alone, just without those old characters. (Maybe I am wrong about it) - KyoriAsh 15:40, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Then we should add some info then. -dandan550

Speaking of which in case people don't know how to do it, if you have the .exe versions, meaning you didn't do the installing stuff, then in your touhou 12.3 folder you should have a configex123.ini file, open it up and it should be the 6th line, you'll have a line that says, "path=blablabla" and the line above it should say "th105path" and guess what you have to put there? Well ok it might not be dead obvious, but anyways, now goto your SWR folder, wherever it is, and get the location of the FOLDER, not the files within, and you can do this by simply right clicking and going to "properties" and you should have "locations" in there. now copy that entire address, and put that after the "path=blablabla" in your .ini file. After that, open up 12.3 and bam, you got all however-many-characters-there-are-in-12.3! ---- 7h3d4rkw0lf

New patch

Tasofro released a new patch, but I don`t know what it does.

@ Unsigned comment, here is an English changelog. http://swr.mizuumi.net/index.php/Changelog TheTrueBlue 21:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Tasofro again releases a new update patch as of September 22, 2011 called "1.10a" and this differs from "1.10". The new "1.10a" replaces the "1.10" download link, and the current english patch by Gensokyo.org might not work with the new patch. The new update patch fixes more bugs, framerate improvments, and fixes network vulnerablilties. --Ibflff88 21:08, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

"-th" in 12.3th

The numbering of Hisoutensoku is 12.3th, which you would see some times: seeing it on the title logo of jacket graphics and title screen, and seeing it the moment the th123.exe is just starting. But I think that the suffix "-th" is postposed after the cardinal number unless the end of the number is read as "one", "two", and "three"; it only depends on the sound which suffix should be postposed of 4 — "-st", "-nd", "-rd", and "-th". So I've thought that "12.3rd" would be more appropriate if it could be fixed. Is this correct or not? --Masuo64 16:56, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

The only normal sounding reading is "Twelve Point Three". Others such as "Twelfeth Point Three", "Twelve Point Third" or any of those combinations are horribly unconventional and sound bizzare. If anything the acronym would simply be "Th12.3" for "Touhou 12.3". On the other hand, if the title screen says "12.3th" then it shouldn't offend the gods of English Grammar to show deference to the gods of Non-Linguistic Artistry by labeling it as "12.3th" in the few instances that would merit such a faithful rendition of the title. TheTrueBlue 20:51, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

English patch not working?

What is up with the 12.3 Weather Patch doing absolutely nothing to the game's text? It was listed under ENGLISH PATCHES and I don't see any more english in the game when I start it with th123w.exe Is it an english patch or not? If not, it needs to be REMOVED from the english patches page now, and if it is, I'd appreciate someone telling me what I'm doing wrong to make it work. Snowpaw 03:15, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Go into a match. Look at the weather portion of the HUD. It should be in English. That is all the Weather Patches translate. !8RstuPId2Y 03:40, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
Any estimate when they'll have a full translation for the game? It must be pretty new but still, there have to be people who are doing one. I would if I knew enough Japanese, but I'm still studying it.
Fairly certain everything but the spell cards are translated anyway. It's just a matter of making the patch itself. The patch is in development, but it's going slowly at the moment. They intend to patch it seriously when Tasofro releases the 1.10 balancing patch for the game. IIRC. !8RstuPId2Y 03:50, December 22, 2009 (UTC) The english Patch is out.

About touhou-hisouten and koumakan

Alright, allow me to explain this, since people think that the touhou-hisouten wiki is a copy/paste job of the koumakan wiki. When the original wiki over at Mizuumi was going to be taken down, I decided that I was going to make the touhou-hisouten wikia (I did not know of the existence of koumakan as it was never advertised or mentioned or anything). Reason I did this was because I didn't want to lose any data from there, and I felt that it would be nice to keep that data for others to view. Now, when I found out a few days later about koumakan, it didn't bother me too much (save that it would've been nice if they TOLD me about it beforehand or something...).

So all in all, it's not entirely a copy/paste of koumakan, as both wikis originally had data from the Mizuumi wiki. Just thought I'd clear that up for everyone. Still working on updating the touhou-hisouten one (slowly, as I'm working on my own Touhou RPG atm), and will be including more data on that as we go along. Hope that clears up everything for everyone! ^^;; Xenomic 05:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

CPU Spellcards?

Not sure if this here, but the CPU doesn't seem to ever use cards during vs. CPU, with the sole exception of a level 1 spellcard, provided it magically lands on the first slot of their deck. Is this a bug or did I mess something up? (The CPU uses the default decks btw).

No, the AI is just very stupid and doesn't know how to make use of its deck. It does however use its cards, also level 4 cards, but those seem to be a bit randomly. When an item cards jumps on the first slot it does not use anything anymore, though. ☢ Quwanti 12:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)