Talk:Touhou Wiki/Archive 2

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How is your stay so far?

I figured I would ask everyone that since we got a good amount of people that moved here. How is your stay so far? For me it's so much better here since we're making some improvements^^ MaronaPossessed 12:00, 20 November 2010 (PST)

Making many improvements is the only way to leave Wikia behind. We shouldn't stop however, as we might end up in the same stale state in which old wiki has been recently. --WGH 13:06, 20 November 2010 (PST)
Well, I'm going to have to get used to some of these new (old?) controls (and/or looks). Still, I do think it is for the best that we move to the new site. I just hope there won't be any funding problems down the road. - Kiefmaster99 13:33, 20 November 2010 (PST)
If it helps ease your troubles, I can make donations if needed.MaronaPossessed 15:00, 20 November 2010 (PST)
I was pretty annoyed when I noticed the touhou.wikia format changed and I couldn't find edit histories... Still don't know where that is if it still exists. I much prefer this format. Also, I made a note on the wikia's main page discussion: "Should perhaps the message on the main page [about this wiki] be a little more noticeable? Like in red, or slightly bigger font to stand out a bit more than just bold? I can see a lot of people not noticing that. In fact, I bet a lot of people skip the first page entirely. The new wiki has the "this is the new wiki" message on every page it seems... is that kinda thing possible here? It would save effort for a lot of the edits that have to be redone like I just had to." -StrikerX22 16:17, 21 November 2010 (PST)
Another note: I don't know anything about it really, but finding this place on google seems like it might be an issue for a while. The easiest way to get here is to give the old wiki another click first, which doesn't really encourage those to come here either. When I google'd, the main page was the 4th result down, with a strange twitter title about it having "been 3 days." -StrikerX22 16:51, 21 November 2010 (PST)
I googled "touhou wiki" a couple days ago and it was on page 3. Now it's mysteriously disappeared, although there are strange fragments of the site on here and there on different pages. Very odd. I suppose if you wish to improve the new wiki's ranking on Google, look around for anyplace linking to the old wiki and change it. Also, if you want to make the message on the Wikia wiki more prominent (and in more places than just the mainpage), than see to it. I probably won't do it, because of COI. Momiji 22:54, 21 November 2010 (PST)
I've changed various links on the English Wikipedia to refer to instead of Wikia. —Nereid talk 00:22, 22 November 2010 (PST)
The main page of still links to the wikia page, but I'm not sure how many people use that link. ChiyuriKitashirakawa 11:42, 22 November 2010 (PST)
One of the Wikia people removed the link from the main page, but I added it back in. Hmm. Pufferfish101 18:00, 22 November 2010 (PST)

My stay so far has been great; no difficulties as of yet, and not to mention, I really like this format. It was merely coincidental of me to visit the Wikia to see that a number of users have moved here. I guess I came back at the right time or something. Anyways, just the entire simple tone to this layout makes things easier for me, and I'm sure we can adapt to the "new" things. It's pretty much the same, yes?
Naome 09:58, 23 November 2010 (PST)

Fine for me so far, even if I haven't done anything here since way back with the templates (just browsing the site and all that stuff). I have to say, this move was sudden for me, since I didn't read any discussions on the other wiki, but I think it's for the best. That old layout was just yuck (and even Monobook over there I don't really like that well >_<). This wiki though...I'm liking the layout, especially on the left side. Keep up all the good work people ^^
In other news...dunno exactly what the shortcut is for the signature now x_x Xenomic 12:16, 23 November 2010 (PST)
It's the same as on Wikia: just four tildas (squiggly-lines if you prefer it be called that way ~). By the way, since we're not being hosted by Wikia anymore, we have to fix how some things link to an article in another Wikia because they'll be the dreaded red links. I hope you guys can look out for some and fix them. Thanks.
Naome 15:21, 23 November 2010 (PST)
Little thing to add: some pictures may not have been transferred correctly and you will have to upload a new version (of course, just grab it off the Wikia one) and the pronunciation files are red links, so watch out for those too... I might be a little late though, haha.
Naome 07:45, 25 November 2010 (PST)

Seems pretty nifty to me! I'll just roll with it! Nazeo 15:34, 24 November 2010 (PST)

Awesome. No problems at all. I need to catch up with some of the works I've been doing since I've been so much busy with other stuff. Deathsoul4 19:23, 27 November 2010 (PST)

I'm a bit late to the party but I definitely prefer a MediaWiki-based Wiki rather than a Wikia-based one. --Antoshi 07:50, 2 December 2010 (PST)

PC-98 endings

My opinion on this there should be a base that is unlinked to anything or possibly hidden on the recent changes list. We could have a section where we could post the pictures of the ending to be translated. So far there is a SoEW english patch and there may be more patches in the future. Or if you feel this should be discussed in MoTK, then omit what I said. MaronaPossessed 12:27, 21 November 2010 (PST)

I believe that this wiki's policy should be no different than the previous one. I'm a big fan of the PC98 games, and I probably play them more than the Win32 ones, and I don't want to be spoiled at all. Plus, ZUN's demand that the endings not be published. (That tells you just how bad I am at Touhou games, ahahahaa. T-T) Momiji 13:25, 21 November 2010 (PST)
Patchwork would probably be best discussed in a forum, such as yeah MotK. To create a separate page not meant to act as a proper article would probably be more hassle than what it's worth.
The only reason I would object to posting endings is due to ZUN's policy. If his policy wasn't there, then I would tolerate a separate page for ending scripts. Also, it is the end-user's prerogative if he or she chooses to access information knowing that, since a wiki is a collection of information, that it will contain spoilers. - Kiefmaster99 21:16, 21 November 2010 (PST)
Since the PC-98 games are so old and lapsed, along with having issues preventing them from being properly translated and patched, I feel that posting those endings in some form would be fair. That said, PC-98 translations and patches are still being worked on, albeit at a very slow rate. I've read that 3-5 have more than a few problems preventing them from getting done, however. Also, any ending translations to date, including PC-98, can be had elsewhere by anyone willing to search, anyway. So it's perhaps something that we needn't muck this wiki up with in the first place.
As with all endings, I believe old policy has it that videos, screenshots, and full, exact text is not fine, but summaries are. The latter could possibly be worked in somehow. In any case, I'm sure most would rather stay away from full scripts and screenshots, even for the PC-98 games. But that's what I've always assumed ZUN wanted all along. - UTW 07:36, 22 November 2010 (PST)
If I could identify a loophole in ZUN's policy, then I would use it. If others agree that summaries would be okay, then we could set up those. Based on what I have read on his policy, I would also be more indifferent to the posting of a script, but not screenshots. - Kiefmaster99 07:59, 22 November 2010 (PST)
Isn't there already another wiki with most of the ending scripts already partially posted? Anyway, I don't think the endings should be posted on this wiki. Pufferfish101 18:05, 22 November 2010 (PST)
You might be thinking of, which was deleted and the address redirected to the old wiki's mainpage a while ago. - UTW 19:06, 22 November 2010 (PST)
Nope, I'm thinking of Pufferfish101 19:32, 22 November 2010 (PST)
Oh, I didn't know there was another. But taking that into account, as well as other places where endings are available, I'm beginning to think it's not something necessary to have here. - UTW 18:43, 23 November 2010 (PST)
A different question though would be if it's considered okay to link to those sites from this wiki... Pufferfish101 22:37, 23 November 2010 (PST)
ZUN clearly states that ending text shall not be posted on the Internet. However, he also forbids graphics ripped from the game(excluding screenshots) to be posted on the Internet, which we are doing all over the place. The way I see it, it's all or nothing, and I wouldn't mind having endings on the wiki at all, personally. Darkslime 08:40, 11 December 2010 (PST)

I say nothing... Let's set the standard and NOT go against ZUN's wishes. We are a site of integrity and while I can see how much more useful we can be with those two features in, I still say no. Let the people themselves experience the unbridled joy of actaully getting to the ending w/o dieing to get the good endings. That's much more than in the spirit of the series anyway. This applies for the endings anyway... I can't really see getting around the graphics problem so that's a necessary evil... As for the loopholes deal, I say let's not fidget with that and ask ZUN when he/we have the time. It's the only sure fire way for us to know what we both want to accomplish here. Oh, and I really hate it when people take advantage of ZUN's free-use thing, (this is one of the reasons I really respect the guy).He's not in it for the money, he's for the Gensokyo Universe! So, let's not make him regret doing this and thanks for hearing me out! *Gets off soapbox* Nazeo 19:16, 16 December 2010 (PST)

Further improvements

We've started with improving navigation between albums of the same group. As for me, it looks really nice. But there's still a lot to do.

First, imagine that you've just learned about Touhou arrangement thing. By browsing YouTube, for example. Now you go to this wiki, wanting to learn more about that phenomenon. You, obviously, click on either "Arrange CDs" or "Doujin Circle/Arrange" link to the left. And you get a huge list sorted alphabetically. Where to start?.. This list's unable to answer that.

The wiki needs a better "entry point", an article which could contain:

  • Short description of the phenomenon.
  • List of the most outstanding groups and genres in which they play. This one is controversial though, as it's purely subjective. But I believe this wiki SHOULD have it in order to help newcomers find a starting point.
  • Some links to "Music Threads" at various imageboards and forums.
  • Link to List by Song, lol.

The same goes to fanfiction, fan games, etc.

--WGH 11:56, 23 November 2010 (PST)

I'll just sprinkle the wiki with roundycornered magic...

Proposal aquí. Input on its talk page if you please. Hardcoded ATM, will be parameterized and have tests on the talk page at a later time. TTEchidna 02:41, 26 November 2010 (PST)

Some minor changes. Master Bigode 07:32, 26 November 2010 (PST)
Removal of the portrait box in favor of just plaincolor...? Interesting take, I suppose. TTEchidna 22:47, 26 November 2010 (PST)

Template documentation up for use

Have every template to include the {{documentation}} if possible. If any problem about the template, please discuss it here or the documentation talk page. I know that the template is just transfered from Wikipedia and requires modification :P - KyoriAsh 03:46, 27 November 2010 (PST)

Literature appearances in character info

If a character shows up in a manga, book, story, etc., I think it should be added to their info, the same as if they were to appear in a game. We do it for the main characters of those, like Rinnosuke or Kasen, but not others. Take Reimu, right? She's a character in Curiosities, Silent Sinner, Sangetsusei, and WaHH. So we could add that to the info of each character who have done so.

Since they don't personally speak, I don't believe in doing so for the infobooks like Perfect Memento or Grimoire of Marisa, unless they're in an accompanying manga, like the one that came with PMiSS. Bohemian Archive is iffier, since they do appear. Although for those there are at least the main articles saying that so and so are in there, along with the entries at the bottom of their character pages. For manga, though, there's no such thing.

I'm not sure about adding individual chapter appearances either, which could be useful for something like Curiosities, but can be done anytime and isn't that necessary. But at least naming everything someone appears in is a start. Along with that, how about a new category, as well... Characters in official literature... or something like that. - UTW 17:31, 27 November 2010 (PST)

Well I'm gonna do it anyway. - UTW 04:31, 9 December 2010 (PST)
Sorry for all the edits. I should've thought about what I wanted to do a little more before starting. I originally had four levels, but I think Main Character, Secondary Character, and Minor Character are enough, along with Cameo where applicable. It'll just make things that much easier. Main is as it sounds. Secondary is for supporting and side characters. Minor Characters simply don't appear much and don't last long when they do. - UTW 06:55, 11 December 2010 (PST)

CD Layouts

Would it be preferred to list the Japanese first, or the English name first when it comes to listing the songs?--Kyou kun 15:38, 29 November 2010 (PST)

Which song list? There are several kinds of them. Either way, original name should go first I suppose. --WGH 14:25, 1 December 2010 (PST)

"New" Button

Where is it? Lately I've just entered the album name into search and pressed the option to make a page named after it, but that's been growing tiresome, and it seems search is broken a lot. I tinkered all over with the buttons, but I can't find any "New Page" button. Stickers 17:23, 2 December 2010 (PST)

I searched "experiment", clicked on the red link, and proceeded to an editing screen. I am pretty sure that once you put text in there and hit save, you'll make a new page. What's the title of the page you want to make? Kiefmaster99 17:56, 2 December 2010 (PST)
Take the URL of any page you are currently viewing, delete the page's title from it, then paste the title of the album. TL;DR version: . Master Bigode 18:02, 2 December 2010 (PST)

New IRC Channel

Rizon sucks, so I've move the IRC channel. Please connect to #touhouwiki at, or connect with the web interface here. Thanks! Momiji 08:08, 7 December 2010 (PST)

Afiliations on Touhou Wiki ?

Hello everyone ! I'd like to have your opinions about a little something I've been thinking. Why not doing some afiliations here too ? Some Wikis are already doing them ! An afilation could be from a walktrough/let's play of any Touhou game ! It would be a text format or a video format from an external source.

Basically, X would do a video of exemple, Perfect Cherry Blossom, posts it on YouTube and thinks : "Eh', why not afiliate with a Touhou Wiki ?". X would put a link to the wiki saying that he's afiliated with the wiki somewhere on the video page. Same would go with a text walktrough, the wiki's link would be on the page. The wiki would add X's name on a page set up for that.

So, what do you think about it ?

Ozland 19:52, 8 December 2010 (PST)

I'm quite fine with the idea, but I think it would be better as a separate page in some manner, rather than sticking that right on the main page for a game (It feels exploitable-for-popularity to me to just let people throw it onto the main page). For instance, have a new page called "Perfect Cherry Blossom: Videos" linked from the game's main page. Let people link to their videos (Probably separated by stage headers, one for 'full game' possibly). Have them label it with their username and what kind of video it is (Let's Play, Guide, Demonstration, Superplay, Perfect Run, etc.). And just have the condition at the top be to ask the person putting the videos up to, first, only submit their own videos to this list; and second, include a link to the Touhou Wiki there.
This setup is proposed to avoid people graffiting the main pages with their name, and still allowing the touhouwiki to both give players a great resource and allow people to garner interest in their videos. Also keeps things organized! --Garlyle 05:49, 9 December 2010 (PST)
I like this proposal; if we do video affiliations they shouldn't clutter the site, and allowing anyone (rather than favoring only one person's videos) to post their videos keeps it wiki-like, as wikis are meant to allow anyone to contribute. I wouldn't mind if we featured videos the community voted as high-quality on the main page, however. Mugendai 21:18, 9 December 2010 (PST)
I like the idea, It helps newcomers to the fandom see what Touhou is like, as well as giving a visual guide on how to dodge bullet patterns, to improve one's skill and get over a difficult stage or boss. I think it's a great Idea. --Artificial Child 5:34, 9 December 2010 (EST)
Seems like a good idea. Would be useful for finding videos showing how to get past pesky spellcards that you'd otherwise have to comb Youtube for. Pufferfish101 19:21, 9 December 2010 (PST)
I'd be fine with having a game subpage like that for storing "walkthrough" or "strategy videos". Just as long as there aren't videos on the main page for the game. Also, I got kind of thrown off by the word "affiliation" - for some reason, I can't help seeing some ulterior motive. But if people would just put their gameplay videos on that page, I don't see it as much of an affiliation; it's simply getting their permission.
The thing I would have a problem with is "Let's Play" videos being on the Wiki. I don't think they should be here; they serve little to no purpose other than to garner a few laughs. There isn't usually any value to watching them. However, if it were to be a single "introduction" kind of video for a game, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it. Darkslime 08:35, 11 December 2010 (PST)
I like the idea as well but I don't like calling them "affiliations". I can't think of another term to use instead though. ~jaxter0987~ 15:30, 16 December 2010 (PST)

The great subpage movement (now actually a movement)

...still just a suggestion! We were talking about it a little in the channel the other night, and some people agreed. So I thought I'd start up a discussion on it.

It started when someone said someone was going to add pages for a character's spellcards, and I said that that should be done in a character subpage, so the page shouldn't be, say, Marisa Kirisame's Spell Cards, but Marisa Kirisame/Spell Cards. And that got me thinking. We could arrange a lot of stuff this way.

Take, for instance, Perfect Cherry Blossom. Currently, we have pages such as Perfect Cherry Blossom: Gameplay, Perfect Cherry Blossom: Translation, Perfect Cherry Blossom: Reimu's Scenario and Perfect Cherry Blossom: Stage 1 Spell Cards. I suggest that, essentially, all immediately PCB-related pages are put under Perfect Cherry Blossom/Whatever. Such as Perfect Cherry Blossom/Gameplay, Perfect Cherry Blossom/Translation, Perfect Cherry Blossom/Translation/Reimu's Scenario and Perfect Cherry Blossom/Spell Cards/Stage 1. Largely, a / instead of a :, and for some things, more subpagination.

To me, this looks much more elegant, and I cannot think of any reason (besides "oh god this would take a lot of time to do") to not arrange it this way (which is why I want to discuss it, because there can very well be something I've overlooked). Of course, this would take a bit of work - there's a MediaWiki extension that can do global string search-and-replace, which means that THAT wouldn't need to be done manually, but we'd still need to move every individual page.

Thoughts? KennyMan666 08:33, 10 December 2010 (PST)

I like this idea. =) Chloe 09:17, 10 December 2010 (PST)
That person would be me (also see [1]). Tentative title: "List of Spell Cards by Character". My intention was to create one large page with the list of all spell cards and details under character subheadings (Eng Name, Jap Name, Games present in, comments, links). The link from Character would redirect to the subheading. This way a person who only wanted to browse spell cards could browse the list. Right now, I am planning to provide links to the lists in the game pages.
Alternatively that list could function more as an index and hyperlink the name to each character's subpage. However, this would raise the question of what information would be listed in "Character/Spell Cards" that would be different from "List of SC by Chara". Or it could be duplication of information if it would look neater.
Other than that, the only problem is whether visitors would prefer seeing ":" or "/", and whether this change would provide any other benefit. Kiefmaster99 09:19, 10 December 2010 (PST)
Looks like I misunderstood the part about spell card pages, then - the question that sparked the entire thing in IRC was "Is the person that was going to do spellcard pages for each character around?" Doesn't really matter, though, subpages for the other stuff is a good idea anyway. KennyMan666 11:35, 10 December 2010 (PST)
Yep, still around. Just haven't had the time yet (exams, etc). If someone else wants to start be my guest. Kiefmaster99 14:37, 10 December 2010 (PST)
Yeah I remember Kiefmaster once suggested making a whole page listing all spell cards from all Touhou series, and he showed us a link to one of the Japanese wiki pages where they listed all spell cards. It would take heck a lot of time, but I'm in favor of it. Let's see if we can do a better job than 'The Grimore of Marisa' hehe. Deathsoul4 11:49, 10 December 2010 (PST)
If you do this make sure there's a FAQ on how to code subpages somewhere convenient for the casual editor. And a style guide for what should and should not be a subpage vs. a subcategory or whatever else. I've been wanting to do a subcategory page for the Moedan translation for a while, it's ridiculous to have all the spell cards in the same category as Moedan itself, but I've been far too lazy (far, far too lazy if I'm choosing to complain about it rather than fix it) to figure out how to code that up. - Tubercular Ox 12:41, 10 December 2010 (PST)

Currently begining subpage movement with Replays that played by skillful high scores player, as chinese counterpart has a large collection of replay to maintain it. Some of the example: Replay/2 and Replay/AM - KyoriAsh 11:41, 14 December 2010 (PST)

It doesn't seem that there are any opinions against doing this. KennyMan666, I suggest that you create some kind of guidelines page to standardize what you're looking to do and link it here. Once the new front page is live, I'll put a notification(like a "help wanted") thing in the news or something. Darkslime 21:33, 15 December 2010 (PST)

Yeah, let's get this on the road. I'm going to start with all the Highly Responsive to Prayers pages, because noone cares about HRtP anyway, so it doesn't matter if I fuck up. Stay tuned. KennyMan666 11:36, 16 December 2010 (PST)

Aaaaaaand done. Take a look around, see what you think. Touched up the navbox and main HRtP page while I was at it, too. I'm going to start doing this game for game, and then... there might be more things that would benefit from subpaging. I don't know. KennyMan666 12:31, 16 December 2010 (PST)
Story of Eastern Wonderland done as well... remember to point out if you see anything that's wrong. Also if you see any of the old : links, fix them. They automagically become redirects when the pages are moved, but... KennyMan666 13:34, 16 December 2010 (PST)
Phantasmagoria of Dim.Dream is essentially done, but we're going to restructure the subpages and navboxes a little bit, so I'm not going to continue with LLS until we've cleared that up. KennyMan666 16:26, 16 December 2010 (PST)

Reorganizing character profiles

So it strikes me that having character profiles solely based on "fun facts" is pretty un-wikilike, so here is what I propose. It's not finalized; there are still organizational issues and missing information, but you should get the gist of what I mean. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? It would require quite a bit of work, but I think the end result could be worth it.

Notes: I removed the Japanese from the profile translations, and kept them all the way at the bottom; they are more like sources that we cite for writing the profile itself, so it seemed like a good idea. Darkslime 12:38, 10 December 2010 (PST)

I like it. After some template revamps to add more spice to the pages, it'd be awesome. Especially if we could get that pesky table of contents off the top, put it elsewhere, possibly after the main profile. TTEchidna 22:23, 10 December 2010 (PST)
I think every format is adoptable except the original text of character setting, because it's not kind for editors making it better when the translation needs correcting. I think the merit of removing it should be less than that of keeping it. --masuo64 Talk 05:10, 11 December 2010 (PST)
masuo64: Point taken. I didn't know there were errors in the translation, but I suppose every translation can be improved anyway. The thing I didn't want, though, was page space being taken up by the English text coming after the info box. Might there be a way to combine all three: the picture, Japanese text, and English translation into the one box? Also, TTEchidna: I'm not sure if we can move the table of contents, per se, but we can hide it from the page entirely... which probably wouldn't be such a good idea. I'll ask Momiji about it at some point. Darkslime 08:32, 11 December 2010 (PST)
No, it's movable. Just use __TOC__ below... or put the profile above any headers and enable editing of the top section. TTEchidna 17:54, 11 December 2010 (PST)
Darkslime. I suppose the character info should consist of your three elements. The present design of it appears quite functionable. It must be a rare case that we find some translation of a setting text need fixing, but there was a possible case like the precedent. This serious, misleading translation was overlooked for 5 years, although it might be unbelievable to you. This is how my opinion was formed above. --masuo64 Talk 01:42, 12 December 2010 (PST)

I've updated the page again. The things I've changed are the template for official profiles and the Table of Contents now floats to the left. I'm not sure how either of them look, though I'm relatively sure the profile quote template is fine; how do people like the TOC being there? I dunno if it looks awkward or not. Also, how does the ordering and content of all the sections on the page look to everyone? Darkslime 21:50, 15 December 2010 (PST)

Automating templates

I was wondering whether it was possible to have scripts that allow contributors to simply "fill in some boxes" and it will generate the pages based on the established templates? Like for instance I wrote up a little page with messy javascript so that I can just copy entire tracklists from vgmdb, fill in some other info manually, then press OK and it will generate the entire music page template.

It would be easier for us, especially since some people may get tired of having to type the lang format for different encodings. Since standards already exist, it would be easier to do accomplish. --Tsukihime 08:58 PST, December 14, 2010

Hey all I've published the roughly-made tool for music articles on the web. Since the template is pretty detailed and I haven't figured out a good layout for the thing I only decided to deal with fields that I found to be most common. Most of the fields are pretty straightforward, though as it is meant for personal use it'd probably be confusing. The page is based on how vgmdb organizes their data so that you can just copy all of the tracks and paste it in the Track Info box (num track_title length; length is optional, but you must have the track number and the title all separated by a tab character, not a space). It is recommended that you just copy the entire thing from vgmdb since I don't allow for any flexibility in your input). For each of the 4 smaller boxes, each line will correspond to the track number (which I didn't bother labeling because I haven't figured out how to). So if you have the original titles for tracks 1 and 3, you would fill in the first line, leave the 2nd line empty, and then fill in the the 3rd. Original titles will use the 2-word romaji for each game (as it is presented on vgmdb. ie: Touhou Eiyashou, Touhou Komakyou, etc.) Anything else will come up as "undefined". Once you're ready just hit "parse" and you will get the results formatted based on the music template in the OUTPUT box, as well as th e appropriate lang tags (currently only jp) for any japanese characters. You can then just copy and paste it and you're done.

You can find the page here Suggestions are welcome, though it's really intended for my own use --Tsukhime 12:02, 16 Dec 2010 (PST)
There's also a way to make a template that takes a couple parameters and makes a standardized page out of it. TTEchidna 11:50, 17 December 2010 (PST)

Recent changes side bar!

I used to love checking out the recent changes bar on the left side of the old wiki, now its gone and it seems like its on a totally different page. can some1 add it back to the left bar for my enjoyment? THX

Oh yeah love the site and this is my first post after i made my account today so please treat me well!=) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noob4u (talkcontribs) 03:29, 16 December 2010 (PST)

I am fairly sure it is still there, please look a little closer. =) Chloe 19:35, 15 December 2010 (PST)