Talk:Undefined Fantastic Object/Music

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About the name of Kogasa's theme[edit]

In The current version, Kogasa's theme "万年置き傘にご注意を" is translated as "Beware the Umbrella Left For a Long Time". But I suspect that translation might be able to be made better. "置き傘" (okigasa) is an umbrella left, usually in school or office, in order to prepare for the time that you're not bringing yours with a sudden rain. Does English have the counterpart? I think "spare umbrella" is more appropriate, because 置き傘 isn't 置いていった傘 simply. --Masuo64 08:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't the phrase 万年 modifying 置き mean you treat it as 置いていった傘 instead of 置き傘? I guess one could translate it as "The Eternal Spare Umbrella", but the interpretation of "an umbrella left behind somewhere forever" (metaphorically forever, of course) seems to make more sense to me in context.--Apcog 02:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I mean there is a noun 置き傘, which indicates the umbrella left in prepare for the sudden rain. 置いていった傘 is an umbrella left for some reason, either deliberately or accidentally. I think almost all Japanese know the concept & convinience of 置き傘, because they're sometimes worried on some season by sudden rains in evening (夕立ち). 置き傘 is one word and has certain reason to left, but 置いていった傘 is five words (oki-te-iki-ta-kasa) and doesn't always have a reason to left. So I think "spare umbrella" (one noun) is better than "umbrella left behind somewhere" (one noun + particle phrase). Of course loose translation is easy to understand, but you can't understand the odd, funny & pretty nuance of 万年置き傘. --Masuo64 06:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Mm, that's why I left it as is originally - kind of like a place-holder, but literal enough that at least one of the meanings will come through. I've been trying to come up with a replacement phrase, but haven't been able to think of one that that combines as well in 万年置き傘 ... I just haven't thought of anything with quite the same connotations in English, and saying it all outright to hammer the meaning home would rather inflate the length of the title, I think. --T. Solamarle 11:01, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I mean there is a noun 置き傘, which indicates the umbrella left in prepare for the sudden rain.
Yeah, I found the phrase when checking the Japanese text as I proofread the new pages. My point was that the presence of 万年 makes it difficult to treat 置き傘 as "spare umbrella" and still have it make sense in English. "The Eternal Spare Umbrella" works, I suppose, but isn't there a nuance of an umbrella that's been left behind forever?--Apcog 00:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Some Chinese translation for you all reference: "请注意放置万年的伞". By the way, I'm mainly involved in Chinese-literated Touhou Web... (KyoriAsh 06:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC))

About the first stage theme.[edit]

春の湊に舟の影
A Ship's Shadow at the Spring Harbor

Some translation suggest that should be 春之伊始的舟影 (A Ship's shadow at the beginning of the Spring) as referring below:

みなと 【港/▼湊】

補足説明「水の門(と)」の意
(1)海が陸地に入り込んだ所を利用したり、防波堤などを築いて外海の荒い波を防ぎ、船舶が安全に停泊できるようにした所。港湾。
「船が―にはいる」
(2)河・海などの水の出入り口。
「近江の海八十の―に鶴(たず)さはに鳴く/万葉 273」
(3)行き着く所。
「年ごとにもみぢ葉ながす竜田川―や秋のとまりなるらむ/古今(秋下)」

This is because the translation is refering 残雪の道 (The Road of Lingering Snow), any suggestion?

PS: 春の湊に舟の影 not 春の湊に船の影 (KyoriAsh 09:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

Ah, sorry, you'd be right, of course. Nice catch, thanks. (I wonder if someone's turned an expression like that in English before; it would be nice not to lose that in translation ... ) --T. Solamarle 11:01, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Excuse me, but that translation is bad, I think... Because that words are confusing, yes. We can't say just from this word whether this "minato" (harbor) is where spring sails in or out. But the phrase comes from Byakuren Houshi's tanka "Kurete yuku haru no minato wa shiranedomo kasumi ni otsuru udi no shibabune" (くれてゆく春のみなとはしらねども 霞におつる宇治の柴舟) in the second (latter of spring song) volume of Shin Kokin Waka shuu. The explanation of Iwanami Bunko's New Japanese Classical Literature Series (新日本古典文学大系) says this is interpreted as "Where the harbor of falling spring is, but the Uji River' shibabune falling in mist". (my translation poor, sorry). Normally "kurete yuku" might well be used just for the sun's falling down, but is used as the spring's going to end. He compares the mist to the sign of spring, and compares the ship's being in the mist upon the river to its having fallen on the bottom of the mist above the river. He associates ship's sailing with spring's transition, and the end of spring with the harbor, which the ship is finally to arrive at.
Moreover, perhaps we must know that "spring" in the older Japanese calendar (kyuureki, 旧暦), spring starts approximately in the middle of February, e.g. when January 1st is in our Gregorio calendar. And it ends approximately 1.5 month earlier from when we normally have. It's different in areas, but it can be snowy at least on February or March in most area of Japanese. Then it's not strange that they feel the end of spring (but spring in old-tasty expression) to see melting snow.
Anyway, what I want to say is; that phrase has its inspiration, and the translation doesn't lack stability when it's translated as "harbor", not "end", of course not "beginning". --Masuo64 07:10, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

About Murasa[edit]

"Everyone calls her Murasa, but murasa is the name of a youkai, so they're not really calling her by name"
The way this is written right now gives me the impression that "murasa" is a species of youkai, but it seems that's not the case. After reading Murasa's profile, I was wondering if this shouldn't be changed to something like:
"Everyone calls her Murasa, but Murasa is just her youkai name, so they're not really calling her by name"
Kinda makes you wonder if any other Touhou characters used to be human and had a different name, but the only one I can think of is Alice.
--Sensei Hanzo 23:16, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Bishamonten vs. Vaisravana[edit]

I understand that they both are the exact same thing, but for some reason (TheTrueBlue and I), Bishamonten is used here and Shou's page while everywhere else has Vaisravana. So... Should which should be changed? Vaisravana to Bishamonten or Bishamonten to Vaisravana? !8RstuPId2Y 01:33, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

As TheTrueBlue has mentioned, Vaisravana is sanskrit, the romanization the Japanese reading is "Bijamonten" (sic, later corrected to Bishamonten), buddhism articles on Wikipedia are named in Sanskirt, but this is translating Japanese, as Zun intended it to be read. Most early translations used Vaisravana, but they should all be switched to Bishamonten as that is more appropriate. We just haven't got around to changing them yet. - Kiefmaster99 01:43, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
But because of this...shouldn't there be another english patch? Or are they just basically the same thing? MaronaPossessed 02:28, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
"Is that so~" Also, Bishamoneten is the Japanese equivalent of Vaisravana, so they are basically the same thing. !8RstuPId2Y 02:40, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
There generally won't be subsequent English patches to change minor details. "Vaisravana" is still a technically correct translation after all. - Kiefmaster99 03:08, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I know this discussion dates from 2010, but taking into account that ALL the buddhism terms are in sanskrit except Shou's theme, shouldn't it be changed to Vaisvrana instead of keeping it as Bishamonten? Ghildrean (talk) 14:06, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
That might be a self-answering question. How else would you read "tora-gara no bishamonten"? Code Slasher (talk) 06:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
The Tiger-Patterned Vaiśravaṇa. If we go that way, why 餓鬼 is translated as "preta" instead of "gaki" or 大日如来 translated as "Mahavairocana" instead of "Dainichi Nyori"? Those use the sanskrit translation, so 毘沙門天 should also use the sanskrit translation. Ghildrean (talk) 06:27, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Esoteria[edit]

Curious of what this word means. Can't find anthing about it on google... lol Tony64 (Talk/Con.) 00:45, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Pretty sure it should be "Esoterica" --Prime32 (talk) 01:13, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
The katakana reads エソテリア, which would produce at best guess "Esoteria". Toho Moto Neta comments that it is produced from "esoteric" + "ia". Whether it's a typo or intentional I'm not sure. - Kiefmaster99 (talk) 02:53, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
In that same page, it says "'-ia' is a suffix often used in names of locations". On a side note, I found an anonymous's post on Nicopedia saying that "esoteria" probably came from Vajrayana (密教, a.k.a Esoteric Buddhism). The denomination of Chougosonshi Temple (朝護孫子寺) - where Hijiri's brother used to train - is Shingon Buddhism, which was derived from Vajrayana, so there's a relationship. --Doncot (talk) 09:03, 14 July 2012 (UTC)