User:TiamatRoar

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About me

I'm just here for Godzilla. Er, I mean, Yukari.

Just as a warning, I tend to ramble and create walls of text. If you see a wall of text somewhere, that's probably my fault. Sorry ^^;

Some people joke about Touhou not having any real plot, but me personally, I'm absolutely amazed how much attention to detail and research ZUN put into everything.

Piecing together Touhou's story is like piecing together a jiggsaw puzzle. The pieces all fit (which is testament to ZUN's attention to detail and cohesiveness. Plot holes in Touhou's massive plot are extremely rare and most likely due to mistranslations), but finding those pieces can be painful. Also, some puzzle pieces are missing whereas others you can only assume are valid pieces in the first place, and ZUN sometimes does that on purpose. Ack.

...I can't danmaku play for the life of me.

My biggest walls

• Maribel Hearn
• Yukari Yakumo
• The Moon

My notes

These are incomplete drafts. Many of them aren't appropriate to add to the wiki yet (speculations that I'm still looking into, lack of refs, etc). I'll put these here for now so I wont forget them until the day I can make them wiki appropriate.

....I really need to clean this giant mess up one of these days.

"Good guess. The first of these classes is made up by the sun, the moon, and the stars. The sun hopelessly fascinates everyone to it, and has so much pride that its presence makes the moon and stars disappear. The way the moon changes its shape throughout its phases indicates a cooperative, indecisive personality. And the stars show a very uncooperative nature with all their different forms, from the unmoving north star, to the wandering planets, to comets that disappear in the blink of an eye. Together, the sun, the moon, and the stars are known as the three lights, and they indicate general disposition." Yukari, A Flower Blooming Violet Every 60 Years

If I ever get around to making a personality section for the three fairies of light, maybe I should note the above down. Seems to match off the top of my head.

Suika Ibuki was in Gensokyo some time before Perfect Cherry Blossom according to her profile in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red, which seems to be saying she instigated Immaterial and Missing Power because Yuyuko's spring-stealing scheme caused the amount of parties to decrease. The question, then, is how long has she been in Gensokyo?

Also, she (along with the other old friends, Yukari and Yuyuko) knows what a dragon messenger is before the events of SWR. Is this because they saw the dragon before the creation of the Hakurei Border? Or was Suika there for when the Hakurei Border was created 120 years ago? I always thought Suika left Gensokyo before the border cause it seemed she had been gone a long time. But it's possible she was there at the creation because Perfect Memento states that the last Oni didn't dissappear until "by the time of the creation of the Hakurei Border" or something like that.

I suppose the question is if Suika went underground at the creation of the Hakurei Border and then came back only a few years tops before IaMP, or if she went underground before the creation and then came back, saw the dragon (and his messengers) there, and stayed there until the time of IaMP, but didn't take action until Yuyuko....nah, that's doubtful.

...doesn't seem like most of this matters that much anyways. Nor is there enough evidence to piece together exactly how the timeline works. I suppose I'll just have the first paragraph and maybe some of the second be added to the wiki in some fashion.

Both Cage in Lunatic Runagate and SSiB have the Watatsukis acting as if Yukari never sprung the trap before. CiLR implies the last time Yukari went to the moon was the Lunar war. Thus, for Yukari's make believe story (which takes place after the trap was set, and the trap was set after the lunar war, as Eirin only prepared it a thousand years ago and it takes time to set) to be true, there must be a time paradox. (add to Maribel's page, but soften the language to state it as a possibility, not a certainty)

(add to my personal speculations, that would be because Yukari's story is when Maribel made it to the moon in the future, BEFORE she got spirited away to Gensokyo in the past)

Lunar war was seen mostly as just troublesome, which gives an idea of just how much the lunarians kicked the youkai's butts

Marisa for her part would rather not have to deal with Yukari (like most other characters). In Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, Marisa comments that running into Yukari was a greater misfortune than running into the tengu and decides not to sneak into heaven just because Yukari is going there. She is still willing to go after Yukari in the case of suspected incidents, however, as shown in her storyline for Immaterial and Missing Power as well as her attacking Yukari in the Boundary Team's storyline in Imperishable Night.

Like most characters, Patchouli doesn't like dealing with Yukari very much, as she went to see Yukari "grudgingly' and only resorted to seeing Yukari because Yukari was old enough to know about these issues that Patchouli's books otherwise had no info on.

Was going to post this in timeline discussion, but maybe I'll just research into it myself

• "Akyuu believes Remilia came to Gensokyo after this incident"

This is in the timeline for the wiki. If I recall correctly, it's a copy and paste from the Japanese Wiki many years ago. The Japanese Wiki, however, is a wiki, and not an official source. In addition, at least back then, it didn't post full transcripts, unlike this wiki, so there'd be no way for other Japanese wiki editors to verify information if they didn't own an ACTUAL copy of Perfect Memento in Strict Sense.

I also recall some things about this being a mistranslation of the wiki, but it's been many years since then (wow, time passes fast :O) so my memory is extremely fuzzy on the details.

So far after reading Perfect Memento several times over, I've yet to find this (the current translation, although if I recall correctly, many years ago I re-read the old translation several times and after arguing about it on forums, it was determined the only thing that implied Akyuu felt this way was that Reimu defeated the vampire in the vampire incident, and that ended up being a mistranslation). I'll scan Perfect Memento once more with this specifically in mind, and if it's still not there, I'll remove it. (although if anyone else wants to do that instead or chime in that they found confirmation for this, that'd be great too) This may take a while as I still plan on researching other details about the SDM's timeline and will probably do that first before getting around to this (it helps to make sure, after all)

• Has anyone found when the oni were sent underground? So far the most I've been able to find is Aya's profile, where it says she's "tengu who has been in Gensokyo for over 1000 years, when oni were still around."

PMiSS says they started dissappearing several hundred years ago and were all gone by the time the Hakurei Border (120 years ago) was made.

Suika is aware the moon is just a reflection, which may be evidence she was there for the lunar war. What about Aya? I don't recall her BAiJR interview with Kaguya being reminiscent but... (re-read that sometime, etc)

Sakuya's PCB bomb in ZUN's e-mail is a private thought to herself, and could be saying she is trapped by her own power. This is possibly a reference to how her power made her ostracized by humans (her EoSD profile)

The youkai beast in changeability of strange dream is likely not Reisen. That event took place hundreds of years ago, and Reisen only came to earth 30 years ago. Her eyes are red like Reisen's, but this is possibly Mokou's fire reflecting off of them.

Shorten Mokou's Maribel relationship to just say Mokou saved her, when it took place, and it's uncertain if Mokou even saw her then, and move it to the bottom. Combine Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Youmu, Yukari, Alice, Remilia, and Yuyuko

Yukari is the only confirmed youkai that regularly visits the outside world. The Gensokyo Record in PCB's prologue states that parties of youkai go to the outside world. However, ZUN has stated that the Gensokyo Record can not be trusted and is filled with errors.

With that in mind, she is likely the only source for people when people are told that the Hakurei Shrine on the outside world is abandoned (find exact wording in Perfect Memento and BAiJR). At the very least, she does not take action to correct it despite proof-reading the Gensokyo Chronicle. This is assuming that the shrine Rinnosuke visited on the outside world is the Hakurei Shrine (not a certain assumption, but a decently probable one).

Yukari is not omniscient. She must physically have Ran, Reimu, Zenki & Goki, or herself investigate into matters even within Gensokyo (she does pretend to be omniscient once in Strange and Bright Nature Deity, but it's revealed it's because Reimu was carrying the cell phone devices on her and Yukari was eavesdropping)

The voice Rinnosuke hers on the outside world is definately her's. It ends with "you see", and Yukari says the same thing upon meeting Rinnosuke shortly after.

Because Yukari is not omniscient, she was must actually have been physically there when she caught Rinnosuke at the outside world.

This takes place during the winter, which is when Yukari CLAIMS to be hibernating

Does Yukari hang around the Hakurei shrine on the outside world during the winter time?

Why does she lie to people of Gensokyo that the Hakurei Shrine of the outside world is abandoned?

Me personally, I think she parties in the winter with Kinnosuke Hakurei (ZUN), who's composing his latest songs (that's the racket Rinnosuke is hearing). Course, this assumes ZUN can speak languages besides Japanese (Can he? Try to look that up). ...er, I shouldn't add this unless I stumble upon actual evidence, of course.

Yukari says in Cage in Lunatic Runagate that she needs the noise of the city. Perhaps this ties into all the racket Rinnosuke heard while at the outside world Hakurei Shrine? It is confirmed the shrine is near a city (and possibly even inside it, given that we can't see the full perspective of what Yukari is watching, as Gensokyo and the outside world are blurred together). Maybe Yukari spends her winters in the noisy city, which she loves.

Kogasa's ability to surprise people possibly extends beyond the fourth wall. When she appears in the extra stage, she comes with the word "Surprise!" As stated in Marisa(?)'s dialogue earlier, running into an umbrella ghost at random isn't much of a surprise. Thus, this "surprise" is possibly meant for the player, who is supposed to be surprised at a lowly non-story-related stage 2 boss suddenly being a powerful extra stage midboss. In addition, she is the only boss in Ten Desires to leave behind a full power up, which is also possibly meant to be a surprise to the player. This would make Kogasa the second known character to be able to work with the fourth wall (the first being Yuuka Kazama, as shown by her mystic square ending)

Sakuya's knives are silver. She mentions it in Perfect Cherry Blossom to Youmu.

ZUN stated he planned on showing how Sakuya met Remilia, and that he will someday. Perfect Memento comes out. Perhaps this is the meeting that ZUN intended to show all along, and the irony/joke is that Akyuu's entirely speculative background for Sakuya is 100% correct. Unfortunately, that still doesn't show if Sakuya is human or not (since even Akyu's background states it's not sure Sakuya is human). Eh, I'll keep this final part on a "My Speculations" page on my own page, but add the known facts about it to Sakuya's page (ZUN has confirmed several things in Akyuu's background, after all)

Search for proof that the SDM came to Gensokyo before Armstrong went to the moon

Look into evidence that SDM is from a foreign location.

It is unknown how or if the Scarlet Devil Mansion has any source of income. Sakuya has described herself as a part-time incident resolver in Phantasmagoria of Flower View, however, which could be one source of income.

As stated in chapter 9, the fairies view Reimu as merciless while on the job. They also find her to be very mean and perhaps rightfully so, as in Oriental Sacred Place's first chapter, Reimu kicks them just for stumbling across them while they're asleep. They avoid or hide from Reimu the majority of the time when not trying to prank her. However, they generally don't run away or show fear while Reimu is clearly off-duty from youkai extermination, such as when they were invited to participate in the test of courage, or when she's doing her ritual to have the sun defeat the moon. They even stage a New Year Festival at her shrine as a show of support when Reimu is feeling down about the Myoren Temple's popularity. Reimu is initially touched by this, but her emotional state takes a dive when only youkai (and humans that Reimu doesn't see as human, like Mokou and Sakuya) attend the festival, and Reimu proclaims she'll follow her duty to exterminate youkai more than ever (while on duty. She doesn't extermine the festival attendants).

Usually Reimu exterminates the three fairies with a swift kick, although she has tossed a broom at them, once.

Three fairies' first meeting with Eirin is chapter 17, where Eirin ended up extracting some wine worms from them (the payment for Eirin's services was the original wine worm jug).

For whatever reason, Alice ended up making three dolls that resembled the three fairies. She's used the dolls to poke the fairies while telling them she doesn't really care what other youkai do, although the symbolism of the act (if any. Maybe she was just bored) is unclear..

According to Tenshi, the keystone suppresses earthquakes by surpressing the catfish that swims below. However, this angers the catfish, and once it is pulled out, an even worse earth quake occurs.

Due to this, the Nawi clan are not supposed to use keystones. Iku describes keystones as causing tension to build up within the ground.

The Nawi (Tenshi is the current eldest child) could control earthquakes, and ruled over the earth long ago. If they're using keystones again, "perhaps they're trying to regain their influence over the earth."

Reisen is watching over Tenshi.

Kaguya is referred to as "moon princess" in Inaba of Moon and Earth. Canonicity not withstanding, this may simply be referring to how Kaguya is the known princess of Eientei, which is suspected by many to have some connection to the moon from its moon expos.

Youkai aviod Shiki and most long-lived youkai have been helped by her at least once. So it is not unusual that Yukari, Yuuka, and Tewi have met her before (and that Yukari avoids her)

As the hosts of the annual Lunar expo, Kaguya/Reisen/Eirin/Tewi have run into an unspecified but large amount of many characters. Notable associations or relationships are listed below.

At first glance, most of the colophon appears to be just a joke. But if you think about it, a lot of the info in Perfect Memento would logically need those sources and were necessary for Akyuu to compile the info being presented (such as the info on the afterlife).

The one exception is "The Story According to the Dolls" by Alice Margatroid. What the deuce was THAT used for?

• Remilia and Flandre are the only known vampires in Gensokyo according to Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, and any time one refers to "the vampire(s)" when talking about vampires in Gensokyo, it must be referring to Remilia and Flandre. This actually shows up in many official works, as every character who isn't a resident of the Scarlet Devil Mansion refers to Remilia as "the vampire" and never by name.

Kurumi is stated to be a vampire. But of course that's PC-98 series...

Curiosities of Lotus Asia has Rinnosuke and Reimu both referring to Remilia by name. However, Rinnosuke uses "the vampire" later on, and Reimu treats everyone the same.

Add the many other ways Kotohime parallels Kaguya (her name means "Rabbit Princess" and Kaguya claims she's a collector of the strange in her BAiJR interview and Perfect Memento. There's probably more. Of course, this is all just for curiosity's fun trivia sake.

Sakuya's PCB bomb in ZUN's e-mail is a private thought to herself, and could be saying she is trapped by her own power. This is possibly a reference to how her power made her ostracized by humans (her EoSD profile)

The youkai in changeability of strange dream is likely not Reisen. That event took place hundreds of years ago, and Reisen only came to earth 30 years ago.

Shorten Mokou's Maribel relationship to just say Mokou saved her, when it took place, and it's uncertain if Mokou even saw her then, and move it to the bottom. Combine Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Youmu, Yukari, Alice, Remilia, and Yuyuko

Yukari's laid-back attitude about fooling around with the barrier leaves Reimu thoroughly annoyed.

Reimu discovers (Yukari) Yakumo means to control the shrine maidens in Curiosities of Lotus Asia Chapter 23 (which takes place a little after Imperishable Night . The revelation leaves her stunned for a bit, but her exact feelings on the matter are never stated. It is likely that Reimu accepted it, given her mannerisms in later official works.

Like most characters, Reimu finds Yukari extremely annoying, commenting in chapter 11 of Curiosities of Lotus Asia, "She just comes to the shrine when I don’t want her to, and of course, sometimes she doesn’t come when I don’t want her to."

As it is hihgly doubtful that Meiling would let someone in from polite words, Eirin is presumably being sarcastic and either intimidated or beat Meiling into submission.

Perfect Memento states she meets lots of people on the job, so it's likely safe to assume she's had brief meetings with any character who comes around to the SDM

Humans are stated to be a vampire's main diet. It seems to imply they need humans to eat

Alice and Reimu chosen by Tatsui or Meiling's subconscious

My Personal Speculations

Completely speculative stuff with very little evidence to back it up that doesn't belong on the wiki, and yet I myself think is the case anyways. Some of it might be fitting for the the wiki someday if enough evidence turns up.

New Hakurei Shrine Maidens are procurred from the outside world whenever the old one dies. The Hakurei Shrine being abandoned is a lie, after all.

Perfect Memento speculates Yukari attacks outside world humans, and this is true. The one who delivers humans to the Scarlet Devil Mansion to be eaten is Yukari. That's what she does during Winter, which is a season where allegedly more suicides take place (Perfect Memento states the food is outsiders who were going to commit suicide). I don't think she's the one that cooks them (someone has to be doing it), but I wouldn't bet she isn't, either. I don't think it's Sakuya that does (IMHO, that would be an egregious sin for a human to do, thus Shiki would have mentioned it). This also makes Yukari's contract with Remilia thematically quite the "deal with the devil". Maribel Hearn successfully transformed Gensokyo into a paradise where youkai no longer attack and eat humans, but at the cost of becoming the only youkai in Gensokyo that actually does. I personally think this is true, but ZUN will never show or state it directly, because Touhou ended up becoming more light hearted and optimistic story than he thought it originally would, as implied by his music comments on Flandre's music (where he says it might be a bit too dark for a Touhou game).

Hong Meiling is totally a dragon. Sealed off by Yukari for threatening to destroy Gensokyo at the creation of the Hakerei barrier, fate changed by Remilia so she wouldn't be fated to destroy Gensokyo. That strong youkai she saw in her dream that was stronger than Tatsui Xianjin and will someday threaten to destroy Gensokyo? That was Hong Meiling, herself. ....I'm not sure if I'm serious or not.

Orange is Meiling. Both are fought at the lake, both try to pass themselves off as normal human, and Meiling's grudge against Reimu comes from that time that Reimu exterminated her for no reason whatsoever. Reimu of course doesn't remember Meiling, but that's just Reimu being Reimu (she does the same to Alice, after all). Her name is Hong Meiling now because Remilia gave her a new name when she recruited her.

Add to "My speculations" evidence of Alice being the female honest one that's too much of a stretch to be on the wiki

Same with Maribel/Yukari

Gah, I need to figure out how to hidetext for entire sections, instead of paragraph by paragraph. Just stop reading if you don't like speculations.

Perfect Memento in Strict Sense is (symbollically) Yukari's book. Memorizable Gensokyo emphasizes Yukari as the final editor, and then it ends with some panels specifically focusing on the reflection of the full moon in the water (which is Yukari's signature). Furthermore, the artist in the afterword gushes about how much Yukari has learned about the youkai (along with a bitter smile that might imply it's Yukari's "fault" that people don't ACTUALLY fear youkai anymore). Why is the artist gushing about Yukari regarding a comic that's supposed to be about Akyuu? Because Perfect Memento is Yukari's book.

How is Perfect Memo Yukari's book? Well, of course, it contains a huge chunk of Gensokyo's history, which is basically one big fat timeline of how Maribel slowly transformed Gensokyo into a paradise for humans over the course of a thousand years. It's not all in one place however. You have to go to Reimu's section, Yukari's section, the Vampire Incident, and the Monologue, etc, and piece it together.

It is also Yukari's book because Mary's memo is the final puzzle piece you need to know that Maribel became Yukari (because it is the one time where it's confirmed Maribel is actually able to travel back into the ACTUAL past. Without this confirmation, it is impossible to deduce how Maribel became Yukari). Mary's memo also reveals her motive as it has her state Gensokyo would be a great place if it weren't for the youkai attacks.

The monologue at the end of Perfect Memento is basically a giant congratulations and chunk of praise towards everything Yukari did for Gensokyo.

But the final section of Perfect Memento, the colophon, is the stinger and bittersweet ending. It lists Yukari as having written a work called "Vampire Pact." This is the clue that the REAL ending is in the Vampire Section. In the vampire section, it's shown that the unbreakable pact with the vampires involves someone (Yukari) taking away people from the outside world for the vampires to eat. In essence, Maribel achieved a golden age in Gensokyo where youkai don't kill humans, but at the cost of becoming the only youkai that actually regularly kills humans, herself.

"The violet cherry blossoms of Muenzuka are flowers of regret that are made to blossom by the leftover sins of the departed."

"I've been thinking this for a while, but I think the violet cherry blossoms seem like they're your flower. I wonder what that says about the sinfulness of your character, Yukari?"

"My, how rude. I haven't done anything as bad as [the sinfulness of] those violet cherry blossoms."

Well, according to Yukari, they were people of no-consequence, anyways. I can only begin to imagine the verbal fireworks that must have shot up when she gave that excuse to Eiki Shiki.

A vast majority of the time "It is said" pops up in Perfect Memento appears to be something that comes from Yukari. Possibly EVERY time "It is said" comes up, the source is Yukari (with one exception where a footnote specifically says it's Rinnosuke). Here's a list.

From Yuyuko's section:

"It is said that she died over 1000 years ago, so she is a ghost with an abnormally long lifespan." (Yukari would know when she died)

"It is said that the color of her skin and hair is paler than when she was alive." (Yukari would know and talk about what Yuyuko looked like when she was alive)

"Her personality is so extraordinarily carefree that it is said she doesn't remember how long she's been in the Netherworld. It seems she doesn't even remember what she had for breakfast." (Yukari probably broke into idle banter about Yuyuko's personality, complete with snarky and annoyed comment about Yuyuko not remembering what she had for breakfast, which comes from A Flower Blooming Vibrant Every 60 Years).

"As her body is sealed away within Hakugyokurou, it is said to be impossible to hold a burial ceremony for her." and "It is said that the Saigyou Ayakashi is now kept in Hakugyokurou in the Netherworld, sealed with the bodies of countless people, including Yuyuko, who sleep beneath it." (Yukari knows about the Saigyou Ayakashi in her Perfect Cherry Blossom prologue. The only other one who knew was Youki Konpaku, so this must have come from Yukari)

From Yukari's section:

"It is said that she once invaded the moon by modifying the boundary between truth and falsehood and plunging into the moon's reflection on the lake's surface." (well, of course Yukari would be the reference for this)

"It is said that this youkai was one of those who suggested the creation of the Great Barrier and created what is now Gensokyo." (Youkai in general are typically not very talkative about history, so this probably came from Yukari)

"It is said it is extremely difficult for youkai or humans to pass through, and so logically it creates a separate world." (nothing particularly unusual)

From Reimu's section:

"It's said that the Hakurei Shrine seen from outside is a desolate, uninhabited shrine which no one visits." (So far, Yukari is the only one known to travel freely from the outside world to Gensokyo and back, although others do bring this into question like Mamizou or Kanako. At any rate, this was before either of those came to Gensokyo. What's really interesting is that Curiosities of Lotus Asia's eleventh chapter implies the Hakurei Shrine isn't deserted at all, and the Hakurei Shrine has also received offerings of outside-world sake in Oriental Sacred Place, and thus, this is a lie by Yukari...)

From Sakuya's section:

"In addition, it is said that the name she bears now was given to her by the vampires, and is not her true name." (big speculation here, but I wonder if Yukari knew Sakuya's real name from when she met Sakuya as Maribel. The reason for this is because Maribel asked to see the master of the house, yet Renko reveals later that she had tea in the open sun at the mansion. Did Maribel come to an alternate timeline where Sakuya was the master of the mansion? In that case, she'd know Sakuya's real name. This is also why she didn't recognize Sakuya, now re-named, at first)

Mweh, I'll add more later maybe, but IIRC most of them are kinda boring "well duh, Yukari probably said that" no brainers.