User talk:NForza

From Touhou Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Hi, welcome to Touhou Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Article and Interview: Keine page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Uberfuzzy (Talk) 06:38, 8 May 2009

About Translations[edit]

It seems I may have been under the possibly mistaken impression that you might be a native speaker of Japanese and simultaneously at least advanced in English. But based on your edits to Hina Kagaiyama's Spell Cards in the Grimoire of Marisa, this does not quite seem to be the case. In the former instance I would be more than happy to accept any translation-related edits you may make without question, but it appears I might have been hasty in my judgement.

Would you please kindly clarify if you are a native speaker of Japanese with a few years experience with English? This is only so I can be a more efficient editor myself, as there's enough on the "to-do" list here at Touhou Wiki without having to go around questioning the translation-related edits of native Japanese speakers who are also adept at English. TheTrueBlue 18:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you are mistaken. I am a native English speaker with a few years of Japanese experience. I realize that a lot of my translations for the spell cards have been a little rough around the edges, but I've never translated anything written by ZUN before and he writes in a very difficult style sometimes. Also, I didn't go back and read what I wrote as closely as I should have. NForza 23:39, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much for clearing that up. I will be less complacent in looking over the edits, and as I hope other translators here will correct my mistakes, I will be vigilant for any mistakes from other translators as well. TheTrueBlue 23:44, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Marisa and Alice: Translation[edit]

A few things:

  • "Sigh" isn't an onomatopoeia like "click" and "buzz", unless the sigh actually sounds like "sai". If "haa" is being said, then that's how it should be written, just like how you don't substitute "laugh" for "hahaha". But, if you'd prefer to keep using "sigh", then at least put it between asterisks, like how you handled rumbling. (Use "<nowiki>*sigh*</nowiki>" to override the bullet formatting.)
  • About the capitalization of "s-, stutter": "S-" isn't its own word, so "stutter" is still the first word of the sentence, and so its first letter should be capitalized.
  • Just out of curiosity, why did you change "before" to "in front of" in the World 2 title? According to Merriam-Webster, "before" can mean "forward of : in front of <stood before the fire>" in addition to its "prior to" meaning, which seems rather fitting for "前" since it can also be taken more than one way. The change doesn't really hurt anything, but I don't see what it helps, either.

--TheSinnerChrono 03:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

- I didn't make the original layout. It was there went I started translating.

- Yeah, I guess I should handle sighs like that. I don't know why I didn't in the first place.

- Fair enough. I really haven't written enough fiction to know how to handle stutters.

- I'm well aware 'Before' is fine; I just think that 'In Front of' feels more natural than 'Before' when describing location.

NForza 04:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


Sorry about the messed up layout. I can't figure out tables to save my life. I was going by another article for reference and it still took me a few hours to get the original tables to work.

Thanks for doing the translation work, but there's a bit more that I never added. First is the title screen. I had a friend get me a translation for all of the other images with text, but he couldn't do the title screen. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/qazmlpok/TITLE_.png If you could get me translations for that and say what's what, I'll try to find some people on some imageboard somewhere to do the editing.

Second is the description for every map, what shows up when you mouse over each stage, i.e. 冒険の始まりさ! アリスをクリックすると方向が変わ ります。ブロックもクリックすると 反応するものがありますよ♪ For stage 1-1. I have a list of all of them, but I don't really know where I should put them. I think that only the dialogue fits the "flow" of the article. Should I put them at the end, make a new page for stages, or what? I don't want to go against the standards for the wiki.

And finally the game title. It changes depends on where in the game you are. There's always the game title and version (まりさとありす ver 1.11b) plus a bit that changes. In each stage it's the first line of the above. During the dialogue there's a function call that changes it, i.e. during the prelude it's "プロローグ。まりさとありす、始まります☆". And there's one for every world and the title screen. Again I don't know where to put these, plus I can't find the last batch in the script files I extracted.

--Qazmlpok 20:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest "Marisa and Alice/Translation/Stages" for the stage descriptions, with "Translation" getting moved to "Story" so that Translation can link to the other two articles. I'll go ahead and set it up.
The program titles can be put in "Marisa and Alice/Miscellaneous", similarly to the difficulty level descriptions from games like EoSD. --TheSinnerChrono 21:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

For that picture, going top to bottom, left to right.

  • Play, Lesson, Extras, Config, End
  • Marisa & Alice
  • Erase Data (Both boxes)
  • Picture with faded Alice: Desunoya* & His Merry Friends Present(note)
  • Gold text: Please select a save file
  • Blue text: Which file should be erased?
  • Box at the bottom: Presented by Desunoya*
  • Blue box: Are you sure?, Yes, Never mind.
  • Pink text: From the start, Continue
  • Brown text: Total stars, Date
  • 1W, 2W, etc. are just the stage names

NForza 12:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Oops. Seems I had two images untranslated. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/qazmlpok/STAGEEFFECT_.png

If you didn't notice, you also missed two lines of Patchy's dialogue in world6. 愛と勇気と渇望の名の元に!! 猛る嫉妬は紅蓮の炎! あんたなんて、あんたなんて…!

死んじゃえバインダァァーッ!!! Qazmlpok 12:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

For that picture:

  • You Failed...
  • Give It Another Try!
  • Go Back to Stage Select

NForza 00:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I need to pay more attention. This really is the last one. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/qazmlpok/RESULT.png

Qazmlpok 03:33, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Play Result (just as the subtitle next to it says)
  • Stage Name
  • Play Count
  • # of Stars
  • Clear Time
  • Rank
  • The one next to the arrows means 'Not cleared!'
  • The kanji next to the letters means 'God' or 'Godlike'
It's not too literally if it's simply the words you wrote. When it comes to translation, if someone is a native speaker in a language or is rather only at intermediate level in a language, then of course their input is out-weighed by those with more experience. Your honesty in that regard is praiseworthy and rare. But if you write that you don't have much experience translating and don't put any other credentials, links, or information on the page, how should I guess what your actual level of expertise or experience is?
When I had an editing disagreement with Deadkid I looked at his profile and saw that he had a commendable record of service with Wikipedia. Wikipedia:User:Deadkid dk/Userboxen As a consequence, I gave his words more weight and his input more consideration. If someone writes they have a PhD in a field or are merely a high school fan or are a long time translator of Touhou works, then I'll believe them unless they give indication otherwise.
I wrote points supporting my translations, you countered those points, and then I responded to your counters. Until or unless you provide for your side of the argument, it will be considered resolved, and in my favor. I didn't mean and don't mean to personally attack or upset you, I only want to improve the article. If a native speaker of Japanese and English came tomorrow and re-wrote every single word but provided a superior translation then I would be impressed and pleased, as any well-meaning editor of wiki's should be. Thank you for your work translating Touhou materials into English. TheTrueBlue 04:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I did write that back when I first joined, and it needed to be changed anyway. I just wanted to be a little snarky about it, no big deal. Besides, I'm pretty sure that at the very top of the user page you can click on "Contributions" and see what the person has done on the wiki.

Also, it's pointless to try to reply to your points on that page anyway because other people are going to handle it. I just completely disagree with your views on naturalizing the language. It's easy to just "serve a purpose" but if you're going to want to engage readers/viewers and create something memorable, it might be necessary to use different words. I feel it's entirely possible to keep the meaning exactly the same even if I don't use a literal translation. However, as far as what you said about Reimu's character could be said about every other character in existence for every translation. We all have to make some concessions when translating, otherwise everything comes off as lifeless and dull. Also, when I think of the word "robust", it makes me think of something more masculine.

I honestly don't care about this anymore. I was just trying to kill time until someone uploaded some more scripts for that Touhou Soccer game. Sorry if I stepped on any toes. NForza 05:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree that there needs to be concessions, and the changelog will show the many many times that the originally missing lines I put in for Sanae vs. Meirin had already been edited by other people.
I'm not sure that a long list of contributions in a wiki translating necessarily equates to a certain degree of experience or expertise, certainly if someone says they're a PhD and have only 35 edits, it doesn't necessarily prove they're lying or not. And plenty of highly productive people don't have the best skill or craftsmanship in their respective fields.
I absolutely agree that the language that's translated into should be memorable and well-written and engaging insofar as is warranted. But I believe an important line exists at the point between adjusting words or phrases that beleaguer translating a line, and actually changing the words themselves that exist unnecessasrily.
For example your line proposal of 所為にする = see it's on your head, I felt was unnecessary since the words "see" "it's" "your" "on" and "head" are nowhere in that phrase. Now it still might be necessary to use this English "phrase equivalent" if this was the absolute best English could provide for this Japanese line. But the "to lay the blame on" or "it'll just be your fault" translates it just as well without needing to make up words that weren't originally there.
As for Reimu, have you played UNL or SWR or IaMP? I had been a Touhou fan for some time before that and could never imagine Reimu scowling like that in a danmaku fight. All her previous profiles she smiled like a friendly and talented if really lazy shrine maiden. This just serves to illustrate that my idea of what Reimu thinks or how she acts was off from what the folks at Tasofro or what Zun apparently felt Reimu should look like.
You're absolutely right that knowing the character is important and valuable for translating dialogue. But if Reimu's scowl was a line to translate, would I have the right to change her facial expression because I don't think Reimu would always have this pissed off look when she's fighting youkai? It's similar in many ways to changing her lines that were written or created by Zun and his associates to conform to how we think a character should or should not sound in a different language. I don't think translators should do such work nor should they presume the right to.
Your point about "robust" sounding masculine is a valid issue. As an anglophone of American English that may not immediately come to me, but certainly we would not want to masculinize any of the girls in Touhou no matter the language. If you had posted what you did here on the talk page, I would have suggested some alternatives you could pick from or that we could agree on, and hopefully the article would slowly be improved.
You didn't step on any toes, I only hope that other translators will consider my own points about why such a line is fitting or not, as I recriprocally consider theirs. The wiki magic comes in when we compromise or agree and the article improves beyond what each of the individual editors themselves could have rendered.
I do welcome any future input you have for Touhou Wikia and like yourself, I also like my own mistakes to be corrected. When Umyuk corrected my use of separating lines vs. indentation and the use of the preview I acknowledged his well-merited suggestions and took his advice. It would be the same in translating. In any case, enjoy your Touhou socceer scripts, and maybe we could work together to improve an article here some other day. TheTrueBlue 05:48, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't mean those kinds of concessions, and honestly I don't know why I used that word. Forget it.

I was wanting to say that about how experience on this wiki doesn't really translate to experience overall translating anyway.

As for your other comments, I really don't care any more. No amount of arguing on either's end is going to sway the other, so let's just agree to disagree as far as stylistic choices go. I'll stay out of your edits, at least. NForza 07:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

You're certainly free to do so. But if you'll only consider my example of Reimu's scowl in the fighting games I'll hope you'll better appreciate where I'm coming from. If this was one's own work, subtitling a doujin anime or a game then of course the choice as well as the principles to follow are yours. But in a communal editing effort, the facts that any interpretations by fans are highly subjective, unreliable, and liable to misrepresent if the project or wording becomes too personalized should be recognized by the editors involved.
You don't have to stay out of my edits, your recent edits to Cirno's scenario I agree with 100%. And I don't care for you not caring for what I'm writing. On the contrary I'd appreciate it if you gave some thought to my suggestions as I try to do so for other editors. Then again, it's your time and your editing style, so of course the choice is yours. In any case, good day. TheTrueBlue 13:55, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if I seemed a little standoff-ish, I just had a rough day. Yes, this is a communal effort, but I'd like to treat this more professionally. I realize that even in professional environments there are multiple translators and editors, and it's in the group's best interest to translate the story and the characters in a way that's true to the original yet still accessible and engaging to the English (or whatever language) readers. Maybe the idiom I chose was a little harsh, but honestly given Reimu's attitude during the fight, I felt was suitable.

And it's not that I don't care or am not considering what you're suggesting, I just disagree with most of it. Again, it's just stylistic differences. NForza 14:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm glad that you've given some thought to the Reimu example. Especially when all the other characters in SWR are friendly looking or smiling ingame (e.g. Tenshi, Komachi,Yuyuko, Aya, Marisa, Suika) or only deteremined looking (e.g. Youmu, Iku, Reisen, Yukari, Patchy, Sakuya, Remilia), Reimu is the only one who looks perpetually enraged. In this instance, not only is there a discrepancy between fans and creators here (Zun and I), but between fellow fans as well, (Yourself and I).
Given this instance I only hope to point out that because so many small if noticeable differences exist, what one believes would or wouldn't fit a character shouldn't form a tenable basis for changing their lines beyond what the artist meant for them to express verbatim. Some things are highly obvious, such as Cirno saying silly things as a general rule, but once deeper or more complex questions of how a character should be portrayed or would behave come up, editing decisions are terribly fallible without textual or canon support from the creators themselves.
I hope your day takes a turn for the better. TheTrueBlue 14:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Translations: コイイロノユメ[edit]

Much belated thanks for finishing up those couple lines for me! School got a hold of my life for a while and I forgot about it entirely. ^^" Battousai9439 20:16, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Oh lol![edit]

I apologize for making that edit to Youmu's page, and I won't post that again under any online identity, but could you please give me the reason/s that you did so? It made perfect sense to me, so I guess I'm a bit hurt. Hehe.202.84.22.157 07:37, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

It was just baseless speculation, really, more fitting for somewhere like TVTropes. Just because she shares one or two somewhat unique characteristics with another character doesn't necessarily mean they were directly inspired, and your reasoning was really weak. There are other characters in anime/games who have white hair and use long swords. Also, there was no precedent for the reference. The Jojo's reference had precedent because of Sakuya, who is fairly obvious reference. NForza 07:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Patchy/Patch[edit]

It's a minor thing, really, but because Remilia's nickname for Patchouli is パチェ instead of パッチ, I interpreted it as "Patchy" instead of "Patch". Is there another, established spelling for "Patchy" in katakana, then?--Apcog 02:53, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think that パッチー is the correct katakana spelling for Patchy. While I've also seen パチ translated to "patch", I think that パチェ more closely resembles the actual pronunciation. (chi vs. che, especially since the e-sound in 'che' is short, so it sounds like 'ch') Also, I've never seen Japanese fans refer to her as "パッチー", so the "Patchy" name seems to be more of an English thing. NForza 03:32, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
Well, yes, and I've usually seen English fans render パチェ as "Patchy". I imagine it's partly because the "e", while abbreviated, is still audible rather than elided, and partly because "Patchy" has a cuter nuance to it than "Patch". Still, it's not like there's an official word on this. I have my preferences, admittedly influenced by what I've seen others use, but I won't push if you really feel "Patch" is better.--Apcog 17:25, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

China Talks[edit]

Going to have to disagree respectfully with your take on the line about Meiling's audacity in Touhou Soccer Match 12. I learned that the phrase のくせに implies activity or characteristics (usually negative) that are contrary the usual expectations one might have for whatever precedes the phrase. (E.g., 一年生のくせに生意気だな "You're pretty stuck-up for a freshman," or アイドルのくせにかなり照れ屋ねぇ "You're really shy for a pop star.") Then again, I'm not living in Japan and submerged in the language and culture, so...--Apcog 17:58, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, you're right. I was going by just "くせ" and not "くせに", which do have slightly different meanings. I'll change it accordingly. NForza 00:21, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for helping me, Masuo(tracklists), and Brassbird (album titles) translate the Sound Holic meets Touhou albums. I greatly appreciate it!^^MaronaPossessed 20:17, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again for helping me. I appreciate it^_^MaronaPossessed 18:06, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Request[edit]

The translated tracklists of 花詠束_-hanataba- is incomplete...could you finish it please? It's not much

09. さらなる風の高み
11. 鏡花水月
02. もう歌うしかない
04. 孤独な兎、夢を見る。
06. 東の国の眠らない夜
09. あなたにほほえむ
10. 時
EX. Ex. 「花詠束 -All our happiness is plucked from the thoughts of each and every one of you- MaronaPossessed 19:57, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

CoLA Translations[edit]

Just thought I'd give you a heads up that UMAD has translated the rest of the chapters. See here. - Kiefmaster99 19:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I didn't see it anywhere on the page. Have a more specific link? Thanks. NForza 23:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
The translation itself isn't online anywhere. What I linked is just proof that they translated it, and that the commissioner is in possession of said translation. I don't know how long the commissioner will wait until uploading it (only 'shortly', and that was 3 days ago). - Kiefmaster99 00:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I see what you mean now. Thanks for the heads-up, but I still want to take a shot at it. I guess we'll see who's faster. NForza 23:37, 3 March 2011 (PST)

Request for clarification about 旧作‎[edit]

Tony64, on the page Talk:PC-98‎, recently asked for some clarification about the meaning of 旧作‎ with relation to Touhou. Generally, of course, it means "old works" although within Touhou, it has a specific meaning. In any case, could you state what you know about this in that talk page?--Tosiaki 05:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Symposium[edit]

Hey N-Forza, we were wondering what kind of(if any) work you were planning to do on Symposium - transcription, translation, etc. We figure it would be best to consolidate our resources and have everyone on the same page when it does come out for maximum efficiency. I know there are a few other translators(myself included) who want to get in on this as well.

If you've got time, stop by #touhouwiki, too! We'd love to see you there, I'm sure. Darkslime 15:23, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I was more than likely going to translate as much as I could. And thanks for the invitation, but I really don't do IRC that much nowadays. NForza 08:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Regarding "it is said"[edit]

In Japanese language (or should I say Japanese mindset), it's common to speak/write in all that conjecture and hearsay tone ("I think", "I guess", "it is said", "I heard", etc"). It's sounds natural to a Japanese and sensed as a default tone: assertive sentence are only used when you have, and want to show the confidence/clearness to it (which is I believe quite the opposite from English). This is actually a common issue when you dealing with Eng<->Jpn translation, to choose the level of assertiveness depending on the property of the work. I usually drop them in normal conversations like in the games, but leaving them in like SoPM or PMiSS or Omake.txts for accuracy, considering it will be used in discussions as a canon reference material. And yes SoPM may contain many "it's said" because it is a in-universe set made fanbook: it's not made for clarity. --Doncot (talk) 09:30, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Regarding DDC revisions[edit]

Hi N-Forza! I saw you made some revisions to Reimu A's route in Double Dealing Character. At first glance, it looks like quite a few of those revisions need to be made on all the other routes' pages, too, which is stated on the Project Translations page. The bosses usually use much of the same dialogue across routes, so could you please check each one for consistency? I apologize if you were going to do this already and just haven't had time yet. Thanks! ― Darkslime 17:49, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm full planning on getting around to it, but I only had time that day to fix the one page. I'll get to the others as soon as I can. NForza (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)